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F-18RN

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  • in reply to: Why the Rafale? #2635674
    F-18RN
    Participant

    Hi to everyonne,

    I have a question to you military aviation buffs: why is it that the French pulled out of the EF project and proceeded to develop their own plane, the Rafale?

    I have read a couple of things on this on the web. English sites argue that this is simply due to french arrogance. I have no reason to doubt english assessments of the French ( 😀 ), yet I was wondering what other factors may have led the French to take that decision: were they mostly of a political nature, were they due to conceptual/technical considerations, were they of a military nature…..??!

    Thanks for the response/info!!

    It may already have beeen mentioned, but one of the reasons is that the French wanted to develop an aircraft that could operate from a carrier, but no-one else in the Eurofighter consortium needed one. We having gone down the route of V/STOL with the Sea Harrier. Of course, if back in the 80s when the french withdrew, we had known that the Cold War was about to end and that when the Invincible Class was withdrawn we’d replace them with big carriers, it might have been a whole lot different…

    in reply to: Photos : The Minsk World #2045975
    F-18RN
    Participant

    Hardly. I heard it does better than the Oceanworld in the same city.

    It seems to do well enough that the Chinese are planning a sequel to it in Tianjin, using the Kiev carrier, which is currently moored in that city.

    I’m sure Ja may be picking his jaw from the floor if he just knew the Kiev is also moored in China, not to mention the Varyag is still nearby in Dalian.

    This sounds sinister. The chinese have two of them? Minsk and Kiev? Think about it, the PLAN could have purchised these ships, claiming they’re Theme Parks, Hotels etc, and, when they get their hands on them, do to them, what the Indian Navy is doing to the Gorshkov. That is eleminate the forward weapons array and replace it with a ski-jump, or maybe even cats. Enlarge the lifts, update the electronics fit and of course, modify the angled deck with mirror sights, arrestor wires and markings suitable for CTOL aircraft. If they own the Novorossiysk as well they could have a 3 carrier navy!

    in reply to: F-15 versus F-14 #2608023
    F-18RN
    Participant

    I’ve always liked both aircraft and I dare say (depending on the relevant variants of the two aircraft) that it would be the skill of the pilot(s) at the controls who would determine which would win out if the two were to go head to head

    On the subject of F-15s for the Navy/F-14s for the Airforce, I read that it was considered difficult to modify the F-15 for Phoenix carriage whilst the Tomcat wasn’t picked for the Airforce because of the TF30. Had the F-14B been available from the outset, the Airforce might have gone with the F-14.

    Air superiority/Interception: I was always under the impression that both planes flew both roles. Especially regarding the F-15 in the air national guard. As for the Tomcat if it wasn’t considered much of a dogfighter, why did the Navy send Tomcat crews to Top Gun?

    A final thought related to the Tomcat in the air superiority role. If Great Britain had purchased a new generation of big carriers in the 1960s (CVA-01 et al) and (assuming it still took place) by the time of the Falklands war, the RN had replaced its Phantoms with Tomcats, what, in addition to defendng the Task Force from Exocet-armed fighter-bombers, do you think it would have been doing? It would have been used to sweep the skies of the Argentine Airforce and Naval Air Service prior to the landing of British troops to liberate the islands. In other words, air superiority. Just my two pennies.

    in reply to: Post War RAF:What could (should?)have been #1419704
    F-18RN
    Participant

    F/A-18RN,

    Not this P1154 myth again. It didn’t work! The concept of plenum chamber burning, the only way you will ever get a vectored thrust aircraft with a Harrier type layout to go supersonic, was a flawed concept from the outset. It was not practical in the mid sixties when it was first proposed and it was still not workable when they tried it again in the eighties, it was then abandoned for good.

    If the RAF and or RN had persevered with the P1154 in whatever form instead of the F-4 you would have had a seriously inadequate front line in the late sixties and seventies.
    The RAF rejected the Buccaneer repeatedly because, among other things, the requirement that led to TSR-2 had a Mach 2 high level element and the Buccaneer could get nowhere near that. They only accepted it when it was the last option remaining after cancellation of TSR-2, F-111K, AFVG and UKVG and even then it was as an interim type pending what eventually became Tornado via MRCA.
    A two seat P1154 in place of the lightning is simply a non starter and would have been totally inadequate. The RN were never keen on P1154 and as a fleet air defender it was always second or third rate compared to the F-4.
    When P1154 was cancelled a developed version of the experimental P1127 was proposed as a partial replacement for Hunters along with the Spey Phantom, this P1127(RAF) became what we know today as Harrier. This was as far as the P1154 could ever have been taken. That is why Harrier is being replaced by the F-35 and not a supersonic Pegasus development.

    P1154 was a journey down a dead end.

    A lot of what you said I was aware of, particularly Buccaneer’s transonic performance and the Navy’s reluctance to go with P1154, though not, I admit the extent of the development problems. I was speculating really on how (if they could have gotten P1154 to work) the RAF might not have needed as many different types of frontline fast jets. If anything I prefer an RAF with Phantoms, TSR2s, Harrier GR3s (and later 5s) and single-seat Jaguars and an FAA with Phantoms and Buccaneers flying from two or more CTOL CVA-01s.

    Indeed if CVA-01 had gone ahead as a CTOL carrier (and CVA-02,03 even) the two services could conceivably have collaborated on the Tornado project. The Navy could have had either straightforward navalised versions of both the GR1 and F3 or a dedicated version that combined both roles to replace its Phantoms and Buccaneers just like the RAF. The savings both financially and logistically would have been reason enough depending on the degree of commonality between the various types of Tornado.

    in reply to: Post War RAF:What could (should?)have been #1422186
    F-18RN
    Participant

    Quite right Eric, if the Admirals and Air Marshalls had only been able to see the future and put aside their differences. As much as I wish CVA-01 and 02 had been built, equipped with Phantoms, Buccaneers et al, in practical terms a carrier, perhaps the size of the largest 1960s/70s carriers but much smaller than the CVAs could have been produced. There would have been problems when it came to AEW if the carriers had lacked catapults/arrestor wires/angled deck combo, but then maybe the AWACS Seak King might have been developed five or six years earlier.
    And returning to my earlier point, the RAF would have only had a couple of types of fast jet, with savings in terms of money and logistics. They’d have had TSR2, the two versions of P1154, the two-seat Jaguar for advanced training and the Nimrod for ASW (and if they’d got their act together AWACS).
    Of course many (though not all) of the arguments that helped kill off CVA-01 were not accurate and in some cases could have been used as arguments for having big carriers.

    in reply to: Post War RAF:What could (should?)have been #1422940
    F-18RN
    Participant

    I think these are pictures are pretty good. And the website below should also be helpful.
    http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/history_p1154.htm
    Please not the similarity between the cockpit/intake arrangement of the Phantom and that of the two-seat P-1154.

    in reply to: Your Favorite Warship? #2051434
    F-18RN
    Participant

    My choice would be HMS Ark Royal 4th. Especially during the last few years of its life (1970-78).

Viewing 7 posts - 226 through 232 (of 232 total)