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Black_Cat

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January 31, 2010 at 3:51 pm in reply to: Does the reality of the PAK-FA justify a european "5th Generation" fighter? #2399157

Black_Cat
Participant

Both of you are so wrong…

the main headaches for aircraft programs were always in this order

1) Engine
2) Structural design
3) Aerodynamics
4) Avionics

I second that …..

those still in the 50s, 60s or 70s can take a blast from the past…… an ongoing saga would be Tejas LCA!

Avionics is probably fully complete and doing good service with other a/c of the Indian AF.

January 31, 2010 at 3:45 pm in reply to: The Groshkov Saga- The Final stretch. #2008689

Black_Cat
Participant

hmmmm……so again another thread and still people repeating the same old stuff??…..

well, let me post some specification & comparison ….. this was actually files last year so the details are of last year. I’d be thankful if anyone can provide and more updated details.

btw, few points…..

1) A variant of TV-12-4 steam turbines might be the one powering the INS Vikramaditya and probably the one that powered Gorshkov. TV-12-4 (50,000hp) is the steam turbine that poweres the Sovremenny class of destroyers. Also, “hp” represent “shp” itself as Russians use “hp” for the shaft power where as Western usually use “hp” for the indicated power rather than power at shaft.

2) Sovremenny also uses KVG-3 boilers, but not diesel fired.

3) Have a doubt if INS Vikramaditya is using the 1.5MW Wartsilla diesels rather than the 2MW (Type-45; 12V200D) or the 2.2MW (Cavour; 12V200CW)….. but it wud be fairly correct to say that both IN carriers will be using the same diesel generators.

4) Not sure, if INS Vikramaditya will be using diesel units for auxillary power. But i guess it has to be….

January 31, 2010 at 3:31 pm in reply to: RIP Harry #2399167

Black_Cat
Participant

Its shocking & sad……!!!

…….I don’t have words to express the pain & sadness of loosing the ONLY worthy & dependable (new Generation) Indian related to military reporting, a person who was very rational & well mannered – a rare & almost extinct species that U’ll see w.r.t to online Indian defence!

Harry was in a completely different leauge (than the so-often seen “experts” from the junkie-yard) with his educated, matured & rational outlook that often transfored into his – much valued – Opinion, something that eluded the “expert” junkies (jingos) alltogether!

…..never realised that he was soooo young, the only time I saw the “youngster” in him was when he came for support during the election of moderator……

May God be kind enough to Gift this young Genius back as soon as possible in a new Avatar… Till then, Rest in peace brother!

September 27, 2009 at 9:14 pm in reply to: Indian Navy News and Discussions #2020840

Black_Cat
Participant

Postin this in case this news was missed…..

MiG-29Ks ready to head to India

The first batch of MiG-29K/KUB ship-based fighters will be delivered to India this autumn as planned, Russian aerospace industry sources tell Show Observer MAKS 2009. The aircraft will be deployed on the carrier INS Vikramaditya (the former Russian vessel Admiral Gorshkov), which is expected to be retrofitted and handed over to India in 2012.

The contract for 16 fighters for the Indian Navy was signed in 2004. As MiG Corp. reported, the first four MiG-29Ks were handed over to the Indian military in 2008, but stayed in Russia to train Indian pilots.

The all-new MiG-29K made its maiden flight in January 2007 and was displayed at MAKS 2007. The aircraft for the Indian Navy is a deep modernization of the original MiG-29K ship-based design, produced at the end of the 1980s. The new fighter has a very different airframe design, built with modern technology and incorporating composites and anti-radar coating.

Onboard, the missions systems have been extensively upgraded. Now the aircraft are equipped with the Zhuk-ME radar using a slot array antenna,
and a new OLS-UE electro-optical sight. Among the non-Russian components are the Sagem Sigma 95 inertial navigation system and Thales TopSight-E helmet-mounted display, as well as a number of Israeli and Indian subsystems.

For armament, the Indian Navy has ordered subsonic Kh-35E and supersonic Kh-31A anti-ship missiles as well as KAB-500 TV-guided bombs. The air-to-air arsenal includes R-73E close-combat missiles and medium-range RVV-AE active-radar missiles.

Maxim Pyadushkin

September 27, 2009 at 8:25 pm in reply to: Russian Space & Missile[ News/Discussion] Part- 4 #1811869

Black_Cat
Participant

One of these is the Kh-35UE modification of the Kh-35E tactical anti-ship missile. Changes to the missile have doubled its range to 260 km while all other characteristics remain unchanged from the baseline design.

TMC explained to Show Observer MAKS 2009 that extending the missile’s range without increasing its size was achieved by installing a lighter-weight engine. This allows more fuel to be carried.

The aircraft-launched variant now weighs 550 kg, the helicopter-launched missile is 650 kg, and the shipand shore-based version is 670 kg. In each variant the warhead weighs 145 kg.

The Kh-35UE is fitted with a GPS-aided inertial navigation system for midcourse guidance. Unlike the Kh-35E, it has an active-passive
radar seeker. According to the manufacturer, the missile’s maximum lock-on range is 50 km.

I have a few questions regarding the Kh-35…..thanks in advance.

1) Is the air-launched variant (230+Km) that was showcased with IL-38SD and MiG-29K the missile based on the old/original version of the Kh-35?

2) Or is it based on the new Kh-35 with a lighter engine and more fuel?

3) If yes, does it mean the new air-launched variant will have/can attain a range of 230Km x 2 = 460Km??…..considering that the old missile got its range (130Km) doubled with more fuel

4) Is there any possiblity of a canister launch version of the Kh-35?

September 2, 2009 at 11:47 pm in reply to: Scorpene & INS Vikramaditya : Reality check #2024090

Black_Cat
Participant

Austin,

First of all Scorpene subs came at a premium like all western systems. Its due to this premium of the Western systems that Indian armed forces try not to customise or integrate external stuffss unless they can do it indigeniously. Money spinning cultured Western companies are very much touchy to integrating other sources (in particular Russian) due to the fear of loss of their sales & profit, in addition to prevent their Russian competitors from geting internaltional exposure & benifits.

In the case of Scorpene, its the French who had to do the modification work for their combat management systems and final integration. Russians have nothing to loose by integrating the Klub series of missile, other than more sales for their missiles. Indian Navy wud have loved to have a longer range missile, and other customers like Chile, Malaysia wud have asked for the same once its been done…..which definetely won’t to the the French liking.

Exocet SM39 (50-70Km) is in the class of Harpoon (50Km?) & Uran. They also are comparatively light weight with Uran probably topping the scale and also having a decent warhead (100Kg) and comes cheaper….the only disadvantage as of now for the Uran series is the lack of a sub-launched varant with the land/ship (130Km) & air-launched (230+Km) missiles already available. The Klub series are much heavier and also have greater range. The equivalents of 3M-54/3M-10 (2,400+Km) are the Amrikkan Tomhawk cruise missiles (2,400Km) and they are the ones the Klub has to be compared with. The Exocet MM40 with 180Km is good, but then we already have 290Km Brahmos and can get the 300Km Klub as well. So no point in drooling abt a missile which have just recently reached 180KM. But lets see what happens…….

Any missile India make will have a Russian footprint in it…u guys can deny it to any extent, but that fact will remain. Also, Russia wud never throw a spanner in Indian customisation. If atall, they wud never have put forward the Yakhont technology and rather wud have proposed thejoint development of Klub missiles. But the period in which India got it was during the most tensed period after N-test (when practically all others were up against us) and it would be a shame and ungrateful to deny that the Russian’s gave it as a big stick to keep the devils out. Arms-Tass had years ago stated the Indian contribution as around $200 million….somewhere like $180 million or so in the Joint development. But u see what the ungrateful “indian” ____ now talk abt the system and Russian help…. simply pathetic.

Scorpene will never have Brahmos as its armament in its current form. Now….will the French modify their combat systems to integrate the Klub series and what they do with VLS modification is what we have to wait and watch. Because, there is no point in having a 50-70Km range cruise missile in VLS for our needs when we can get the Klub 3M-54 with 300Km and with some “consulting” we can extent the range to couple of thousand kilometers.

August 31, 2009 at 5:07 pm in reply to: Scorpene & INS Vikramaditya : Reality check #2024510

Black_Cat
Participant

INS Vikramaditya (ex-Gorshkov)

INS Vikramaditya contoversies are almost never ending, kept alive by the “experts” who skipped the basics regarding the ship, deal, progress of work and related developments, except for controversial stuffs from the loose media. Let me list some of the basics of the INS Vikramaditya deal (I won’t get surprised if FAQs like the “source” are taken up. Because, thats how ignorant people have been w.r.t the INS Vikramaditya.

INS Vikramaditya deal & major events

1) INS Vikramaditya deal signed in January 2004

2) ~$740 million is for ships modification & ~$940 million (u can correct the figures if necessary)

3) A little over $600 million will go to Sevmash for upgrading the ship. (refer http://www.sevmash.ru)

—– Deals outside Sevmash
————- 8 + 1 boilers form SDB (all delivered by mid-2006)
————- 4 x 1,500kW Genset from Wartsilla for Electricy Generation
————- Underwater comm and related equipment from Keletron.
————- etc

4) Gorshkov moved to Sevmash dry dock in Dec 2005 after stripping. (http://www.sevmash.ru)

5) Maximum work to be completed, including major works like new equipment installation, deck extension, propulsion etc etc to be finished before launch.(http://www.sevmash.ru)

6) Launch planned for November 2006 after completion of the above works. (http://www.sevmash.ru)

7) Indian delegation visit Sevmash in June 2006. (http://www.sevmash.ru)

8) Sevmash conveys to the Indian delegation regarding additional work involved. Indian delegation head confirms the delay due to additional work. He says its unfortunate, but hopes to see the work completion in 2 years. i.e Dec 2008 (http://www.sevmash.ru)

9) Approx $400 million of the $600 million for Sevmash have been transferred for the work by 2006 end.

After June 2006 visit of the Indian delegation, its most likely that the no further funds was made available to Sevmash and hence the work was halted. Its probably after the work on INS Vikramaditya was halted that Sevmash moved the workforce from the carrier to other projects.

——— between June 2006 and mid-2007 there is hardly much news ——

10) mid-2007, some _____ from the Janes pullout what happened in June 2006 and gets success with their “hot” & “scoop” story and screams —–> Gorshkov modification facing major trouble. All others follows with their own theme and speculation.

IN and media pulls out the Russians for moving the workers to other project is, but the reason behind moving workers to other projects is kept-under.

11) Nov 2007, ex-chief scream out on additional work and price increase….. What the hell was he doing when he was in charge??? His successor screams the same in same words (refer the words printed in paper, one wonders who actually wrote for whom or who wrote it for them)

12) Dec 2007-Jan 2008 —- Sevmash “opens up” with new images, Gorshkov with completed ski-jump is flashed…..and draught ridden online community are greeted with an almost formed STOBAR carrier.

More pictures of the carrier arrive by 2008-end. INS Vikramaditya – in most likely service colour – is an eye candy. Truly a Beauty.

13) Nov-Dec 2008 —- even as the media was allout with their planted story regarding Indian Navy ditching the carrier, Indian Naval Chief Sureesh Mehta held a press conference on Mumbai terrorists attacks. Noteable among the press conference was the large banner in the background.

None of the “experts” noticed it nor its importance and the reason why not much photos are available or vedios nor any mention of it anywhere online.

The significance was that —– the background banner had in it a large photo of INS Vikramaditya at Sevmash drydock getting ready for launch. That simple background conveyed how much IMPORTANT INS Vikramaditya was for Indian Navy. But ignorant of this, the “experts” went out on their routine.

This is the first time that I ever saw Indian Navy doing a press conference with a ship thats was still under construction!

14) INS Vikramaditya is launched in Dec 2008, everyone hoping to see a final price negotiation to conclude.

15) 2009…..But, the final price not yet reached. Media as usual went with their on own baseless figures from unnamed Russian sources, where as Russian media quote these Indian media to report the same.

Surpriing is the fact that none of the media or “experts” DARED to use the Right To Information act to get the figures regarding how much was paid to the Russians during the years for Gorshkov modification and rather kept on with their “motivated” reports. Its wonderfully a very “transparent” system!

16) August 2009 …..

Even 3 years after Sevmash conveyed the Indian delegation regarding the additional work and delays, the question of how much more to pay and how much already paid after the Russian demand remains unclear.

Its a DAMN 1095 days thats been wasted due to the incompetants decision makers sitting at the top. And still all the blame is on the Russians, when in 3 years time India could have taken the decision to either keep the ship or let it go and demand the refund!

Among the incompetants in the whole saga, the definite two who should never be cleared for their incompetance in decision making are the Ex-chief and the present Chief. 1095 wasted days since Sevmash first conveyed the delays to the Indian Delegation. What a shame!

The list of charges against the modified ship was plenty, with some of them now having

silenced….

A prominent charge among that was —

1) Simultaneous T/O & landing impaired due to the ships past STOVL status…

All this said….will the people have the courage to speak out against our own incompetancy???
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