i do see alot of AAC aircraft around here [herefordshire that is] only this mornining 2 lynx and 2 gazelles flew over in a kind of diamond formation,the noise was fantastic by the way…but i havnt seen a apache over here yet..send some our way please.

i agree,during the late 50s to the late 60s dogfighting was thought to be a thing of the past..and most if not all fighters was designed purely as interceptors.agility never botherd most designers,straight line speed and climb rate was deemed important.this was the current thinking until F-4 pilots over nam found themselves turning and burning with 1950s vintage mig-17s.the phantom was designed as a interceptor so installing a gun was not even thought of,this gave the cannon armed migs the advantage in close in engagements.
this gave the US and other nations food for thought.the F-4E variant had a cannon installed as did the F-106 dart.the soviets did the same to the su-15,installing attolls on yak-28p,and aphids on the mig-25.but this was only a stop gap measure.as these aircraft where still interceptors,so they was not really suited to the job,they where all very fast,had fantastic climb rates but lacked eny decent agility.thus the F-16 and mig-29 was born.dogfighting is here to stay…

[QUOTE=nastle]^ some people rule it out as useless in combat against fighters that is true to a large extent in any 1 vs1 scenario but if whole regiments of foxbats been used as was planned by the soviets in the 80s they would have seriously disrupted NATO airstrikes

can you just imagine complete regiments of foxbats coming to kick your ass…im so glad i wasnt a tornado pilot in the 80s…and if you got passed them you had thousands of floggers to deal with…..wait there i think i have to have a whiskey…

fiddlers

only the soviets could of made a interceptor 89 ft long..WOW, what a beast…and i agree,i can never find a good photo of one…..i can just imagine the sight and sound of one blasting off in full afterburner loaded up with 4 ash’s….