Now, am I wrong to assume there is already the technology to fly a UAV high enough and far
enough to intercept a tanker refuelling a ………..I don’t know………F-15 or F-16 or F-117 and may
be F-22?
Here is a thought. Instead of all of the suggested SUs or MIGs, why wouldn’t the Iranians fly 500
or more UAVs with the above mentioned capabilities. They can have just about anybody, who
shows talent, from a high school student to a 70-year-old retired pilot flying them. Hell, even
girls could keep their Hejab and still sit behind the controls. And, from what I hear, the Iranians
have one of the highest rate of girl literacy.

UAVs are unarmed usually.. you probably mean UCAV. while the idea of a fighter UCAV is nice, where are you going to get them? Most of the UCAV projects are all focused on air to ground, and the most advance onces being developed by yes.. the US and Western Europe.

Also the idea of using the Su-47 isn’t too practical either. It’s a tech demonstrator. A number of what it’s using inside is just cobbled together from the Flanker. There’s nothing revolutionary or new. the FSW it uses also gives more problems than advantages too.

I don’t believe we have a new fighter here. The twin-fin F-5 looks more like a study object and test aircraft. There is actually little sense in adding another fin to the airframe. The most one can get from an F-5 derivative was demonstrated by the F-20 Tigershark, as you know it did not have a second fin. We can saefely assume that no matter what the Iranians do they will not get over a normal Tigershark, especially they lack the appriopriate radar (APG-67) and engine (F404).
The basic problem is: They can build an F-5, they can maybe even build an F-14, maybe improve its radar. But they will never be able to build an aircraft able to counter F-15C and F-18E, so any investment is wasted money.

If you can’t answer symmetrically, do it asymmetrically. That means hiding. As laid down in linked artile of Berlusconi there is serious doubt that even an extended campaign will lead to the desired results.

come on, if you think about it.. they’ll need to build an F-22 class fighter to counter it, and we know barely any other country in the world has the resources and funding to actually accomplish it, let alone purchase it in numbers that would ensure air supremacy.

Amusing last 2 posts.

Guys, pay attention, Iran can not buy European or American planes. So, they are left only with
the Eastern Block and China. Doh.

I was wondering why no Migs were suggested by anybody???

nope, you already laid down the parameters before even mentioning it was Iran, so either way, we’re only left with Russian aircraft. At the moment, Chinese aircraft are more specialized than being all arounders.

The F-14 is expensive, very costly in maintenance and training. They could afford 2 to 3 F-5 for the job. I don’t think the F-14 brings in that big advantage.

you’re right, I think that’s why they’re going for F-5 clones :dev2:

there was an actual pic of a prototype somewhere, but this is the best I could find.. a model.

despite what the caption says, I don’t believe that this is the Saeqeh 80

Garibaldi pwns in looks and armament.

Okay, lets assume we are a country and we want to upgrade F-14s and we have no access to US technology. What are our options? How far can we go?

PLA-MKII’s expert answer (based on speculation and day dreaming):

Key would be getting a replacement for AIM-54s. Since radar codes are compromised and non compatible with eastern weapons, radar would also therefore need to be changed. The main question then becomes if, how and what you can replace the tomcats original radars. Not necessarily a MiG-31’s radar but it is open to other radar sets as well. If I recall the Su-27’s radome is comparable to the F-14’s and a slightly larger antenna would be even better and a non issue.

Second portion of this would be the weapon systems: after such a radar fit both Russian and Chinese weapons would be integratable. Further, all kind of seeker heads and main bodies can be integrated, possibly one which seemingly looks like tha AIM-54 but is a totally different animal.

the PL-9s would make a nice complement to this XBVRAAMs resulting in a all new new Pheonix rising from the ashes of war, an avenging angel garding golden eggs of nuclear proportions.. 😀

yes definitely not the MiG-31’s radar or the MiG-31 itself. A while ago some Soviet spy (named Donald) gave info on the system to the Americans, so it’s been compromised. It’s also too big to fit in the F-14.

Now I understand what you were saying….makes sense to produce new models with the flat canopy. Any production figures available?

Hi J Boyle. I kind of doubt they are paying Bell anything but at least they’re not exporting any of these copies (to my knowledge at least).

I also want to apologize for an error I made above. It appears that the Panha is not a reversed engineered/copied Cobra, but a local upgrade to the AH-1J. Found this pic of the factory where the Panha conversion is done (pic from Janes)

However the AH-1J has been reversed engineered at the Dameghan Research Center.. but it doesn’t seem that these models have received the Panha upgrade. so far it is exclusive to the ones they’ve received from the US.

From what Janes states: upgrades include FLIR and MFDs in the cockpit and 5 have been completed so far, and could possibly go up to 50. There is a plan to upgrade it further with a 4 bladed composite rotor and quite possibly modifiying the tail rotor to be similar to that of the fenestron rotor. They are both armed (or to be armed) by an Iranian ATGW called Toophan, more info here
http://www.janes.com/aerospace/military/news/jdw/jdw000526_2_n.shtml

hope that answers your question

Do you have any thoughts on why they’re producing (or at least making a prototype) of the old Huey and not a Twin (Bell 212) or larger engine version (Bell 214?)?

hmm I believe one of them is derived from the Bell 214? Here’s two articles, one from JDW and the other from AFM. I cannot post the direct link since these were posted by Tom and JDW requires a subscription service.

—–
6 May, 2001
Iran shows its helicopter expertise
(From JDW by Paul Beaver)

“Details of Iran’s helicopter industry have been revealed in detail for the first time at IDEX 2001. The strong presence of the Iran Helicopter Support & Renewal Company (IHSRC) has added weight to claims by the country’s Aviation Industries Organisation that it is the “leading helicopter maintenance centre in the Middle East”.

IHSRC supports 14 types of helicopters in military and government service, most of which are US-designed types delivered before the fall of the Shah. In addition, Iran has been developing its own variants of the US designs, using expertise developed under the pressures of isolationism. Civilian parts and sub-assemblies have been procured across the world, many of which are directly applicable to the military types in service, including the Bell 205, 206, 209, 212 and 214.

Currently featured in Jane’s All The World’s Aircraft is the AVA-505, which shows a configuration similar to the Bell 206, with a cabin profile not dissimilar to the Aerospatiale Gazelle. It was in stage design by 1996 and has recently been flown for the first time. Despite isolation, Iran has created the helicopter, named Thunder, to US Federal Aviation Regulations Part 27.

Another Bell 206 look-alike is the IHSRC’s own development, the Panha 2061. The ubiquitous Bell 205 has also been re-engineered by IHRSC and, in 1998, the company announced the Panha 2-75 Shabaviz; models of both are on display in the Iranian national area of Hall 1.

Both have undisclosed non-US power plants and the fuselage parts were made at the Parts Fabrication Centre at Mehrabad Airport, near Tehran. The centre can design and anufacture metallic and non-metallic parts, including plexiglass windshields and panels of polycarbonate material.

The overhaul and re-build facilities were severely tested during the 1980-88 First Gulf War. This war emergency led to the creation of an integrated repair system, including the formation of the Helicopter Depot Maintenance Centre.

After extensive military service in the war against Iraq, most of the Agusta-built Boeing CH-47 Chinook medium lift helicopters were re-built at Mehrabad. This work included main rotorblade fabrication and balancing. The necessary jigs and fixtures were built.

Iran’s promotion of its helicopters at IDEX 2001 dispels reports that the Iranian forces have been struggling to keep their Western types in the air. It is possible that IHSRC has been back-engineering several of the simpler models, including the Bell 206 JetRanger and 209 Cobra light attack helicopter.

IHSRC claims* that by 1985, it had developed the means to overhaul the Sikorsky RH-53D Stallion medium lift helicopter, originally delivered for mines countermeasures. The RH-53D operates today from amphibious assault ships.”

“This is not only a “claim”: a number of RH-53s – probably a dozen or so – remain in service with the IRINA.

Independently from this, there are also reports, that Iran plans to replace its remaining P-3F Orions, some three or four of which are still in use by the IRIAF. Iran intially purchased six P-3Fs (a special mix-version of the P-3B and P-3C). One of them was lost during the war with Iraq, but the rest of the fleet remained intact and operational, and was used intensively during the GWI, regardless of the fact, that large parts of their equipment lacked spare parts and were (and, supposedly, still are) in bad maintenance. Now, however, the IRIAF finds it increasingly problematic to keep the small fleet operational.

Supposedly, the IRIAF is to replace P-3Fs by a maritime version of the An-140s (called Iran 140), built under licence by the Iranian Aircraft Industries, at Mehrabad. Reportedly, there is also an AEW-version of the Iran 140 in developement (for which different sources in the West expect the Iranians to find somebody who should help them with the radar and avionics).

At the same time, the IRIAF seems also to be on the verge of phasing its remaining 23 C-130E/Hs out of the service, but it is unclear by what should they be replaced, although An-72s and An-140s could be used for some tasks now undertaken by Iranian Hercules’.
—-

26 March, 2001
The latest AFM issue (April 2000) brought the following article:

“The latest Iranian helicopter was unveiled at the first International Aerospace Conference held by Iran Aircraft Industries in Tehran between 30 December and 1 January 2000. Called the Shaheed-274, it is a utility type designed and manufactured as part of the “drive for self-suficiency” programme of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Institute for Industrial Research and Developement.

Capable of carrying five people, the Shahee-274 has a maximum level speed of 97 knots, a maximum range of 385 miles (620km) and weights 1.874lbs (850kg). According to Iranian authorities, a total of 20 helicopters of this type are to be built by 2004, to be used for observation, rescue and light cargo-carrying duties.

The helicopter was demonstrated in front of the delegateds, and took part in a flypast at the end of the conference alongside a Fajr Aviation F-3 and a Sanjaqak (a copy of the Bell 47). During the conference, General Baghaee of the IRIAF reiterated his country’s need for vigilance against Israel, saying that Israel has aircraft and missiles with ranges exceeding 1.864 miles (3.000km) and that this was far in excess of that required to counter threats from Lebanon and Syria.”

Furthermore, on subsequent press briefings, it was stated, that the IRIAA is seeking more powerfull utility transport and attack helicopters, and that Kamov’s Ka-60 and Ka-52 respectively are being considered for these roles. The IRIAA is currently acquiring a number of Shahbaviz 2-75 (“Owl”, reverse enginered Bell 206 JetRanger) and Shabaviz 2061 (reverse engineered Bell 214) produced by the IAI, while also a number of non-airworthy Bell AH-1J Cobras were brught to flight status and armed with the Iranian version of TOW anti-tank missiles which are in production since early last year.
—

I think you’ve wasted your time since your post is too long for nationalistic teens to bother with, as they continue searching for “mines is better than yours” posts that are usually less than a paragraph long 😉