The biggest problem for India is that it cannot do an in-house upgrade on the Mirage-2000 without voiding the warranty and support for the upgraded Mirages from Dassault. if India had gone ahead with its initial plans to build Mirages at HAL (they even paid for the ToT and set up infrastructure for nearly 150 Mirages at air bases), then like the Jaguar, HAL could’ve done its own upgrade with Israeli and other western inputs. On the Jaguar, nearly 85% is built indigenously, so there is little fear of any warranty or spares not being provided from Bae or RR, so the IAF can ask for and get cheap and capable upgrades like DARIN I, DARIN II and DARIN III (now in the works). Even though HAL can overhaul the entire Mirage at its Bangalore facility, something that no other place outside of France can do, they do not produce its spares since they never really got to produce them for a large fleet it nor did they run into the myriad supplier related spares shortages (like Russian fighters) even though the French charge an arm and a leg for spares.

There is nothing that India can do but to negotiate and finally pay for the upgrades. the IAF has a lot of infrastructure, training and expertise on the Mirages and it cannot be thrown away, nor given away in some uneconomical exchange scheme-especially not when there is already such an acute fleet shortage. 3 squadrons of multi-role Mirages that also are a vital part of the IAF’s nuclear strike force means that these are aircraft that the IAF would not want to part with, not till the MRCA enters service in large numbers and gets fully operationalised.

I’m also pretty sure that the upgrades come with new weapons and a deep overhaul of the engine as well, since the original M53-P2 engines would’ve also approached the end of their life and will need to get refurbished like the airframe which gets a life extension..Snecma won’t manufacture the M53-P2 anymore since the Mirage line is closed..they’ll only have some projects that could keep the in-service ones in operation till when its economical to keep such a project going.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that those UAE Mirages are somehow going to be offered to India and it they’re offered at a good price(something we don’t expect from France anymore), they may be worth it alongwith their stocks of spares and weapons. Argentina, Romania, Peru or some such small operator may want a part of the fleet if not all, but whether they can afford them or not will be doubtful. So, Greece and India would be the most likely to be offered these if the UAE does offload its Mirages, since France has basically abandoned Taiwan.

looking at the Qatari experience, I feel that the IAF won’t waste time on this and instead concentrate on getting the MRCA into service alongwith the Tejas Mk.2 and more Su-30MKIs..as it is, the UAE Mirages wont retire en masse and will only become available as Rafales start coming in, in large numbers. instead of waiting, the IAF could simply order more Tejas Mk.2s that cost about $25 million each, brand new ($29 million per unit including support, ground equipment and simulators for training). with a 6000 hour airframe, they’ll last longer than second hand UAE Mirages.

Mauritius Police Force HAL Dhruv

what is interesting is that this is the civilian variant of the Dhruv used for the police force, as can be seen from the retractable tricycle landing gear, instead of the non-retractable skids.

In Indian service the Jaguar has been a fine aircraft. It suffers in hot and high conditions due to thrust limitations but then, many aircraft of its generation would suffer correspondingly.

In the plains, Jaguar pilots have routinely demonstrated superb performance once fully ops on the aircraft. Well sited and prepared Air Defenses have been taken by surprise by Jaguars “appearing out of the ground”, conducting an accurate weapons delivery and then disappearing before weapon systems could be brought to bear.

The Indian Air Force also deployed its Jaguars to the US, as part of Exercise Cope Thunder. They did sufficiently well, for the IAF to be awarded mission commander status in a (relatively) short period of time & succeeded in penetrating intense AD zones & completing their missions.

Overall, the design is sound, and works well when used as it is designed for – low level strike. Of late, the increasing proliferation of cheap MANPADS has made this hazardous, but the quick strike and get out approach is still sound, provided adequate care is taken in mission planning and loiter is not done.

In the IAF, which has around 120+ Jaguars of which some 77 are in DARIN2 config, ie upgrade. These include new HOTAS controls, Litening fit, new glass’ed cockpit + new HUD, new RWR + SPJ, upgraded environmental controls (vital for India – as pilots would sweat like anything at low level in the heat), new nav-attack system built around RLG-INS (Sagem) and new mission computers (for new weapons). A new autopilot helps for PGM attacks. Furthermore, around 10 earlier IMs (Maritime) recieved new Elta 2032 radars and similar avionics. New recce kit includes newer variants of the Vicon pod series.

The Jaguars have also reportedly been made IFR capable. Buddy refuelling is likely, from Cobham pod equipped aircraft in the IAF, including Jaguars.

Currently, the remaining Jaguars are to be brought upto DARIN3 standards – details are not available on the exact fit, but have posted what seems reasonable in the IAF thread.

At the same time, competitions are ongoing for re-engining the Jaguar fleet. Competitors are an upgraded Adour and a brand new Honeywell F125 turbofan which claims remarkable lifecycle advantages plus improved thrust over the Adour. Adour’s advantage is its similarity and hence easier integration (claimed) with the airframe.

New weaponry is being sought to replace earlier Magic-1/2 series AAMs carried overwing by Jaguar pilots for self defence. ASRAAM and Python5 are competing. The IM’s having dropped the Sea Eagle (or will), the IAF is looking for new AShM – Harpoon is a possible there.

With these improvements – the Jaguars earlier limitations seem gone. With spares readily available at HAL for most airframe components, new engines and avionics, the Jaguar should be good to go for the next two decades, with its most obvious vulnerability (thrust issues) having been resolved, allowing it to operate at higher altitudes and even act as a precision strike platform.

I daresay, this testifies to the design of the aircraft which is quite reasonable and lends it versatility provided necessary improvements are made, with advances in technology.

in addition to what Teer has written, let me add a few points as mentioned in Air International’s coverage of the IAF Jags at Ambala. As per the article, IAF pilots are very happy with the DARIN II upgrade. the HOTAS controls and long-awaited autopilot, now supplied by Sextant have been incorporated. These not only increase the Jaguar’s ground attack capability but also enhance safety. One of the pilots said to the author of that article “The Jaguar is an accurate weapons delivery platform, however with the introduction of the DARIN II upgrade, the accuracy has improved quite a bit.”

It also mentions that the DARIN II upgrade took approx 4 years and 200 developmental test flights. It also includes a light fitted on the starboard engine intake to aid in air-to-air refuelling at night. The latest 17 Jaguar IT and 20 Jaguar IS are DARIN II and in July 2008, it was announced that HAL would upgrade 68 aircraft to DARIN II standard at a cost of 24 billion rupees (28.5 million pounds). Fleetwide re-wiring to enable the Rafael Litening pod to be carried is also expected.

the Jag IM fleet has also been earmarked for upgrade with addition of nav/attack systems along with an integrated EW pod.

and DARIN III Jags will be externally different as well, as the familiar chisel nose will be replaced by a conical nose cone that will house an as-yet unknown multimode fire-control radar supplied by Elta (most likely Elta 2032 as Teer said).

In addition, the article also mentions that in 1996, the Composite Material Research Lab based in Hyderabad had developed stealth enhancements that had been test flown on the Jaguar. These are believed to consist of radar absorbent material tiles in the intakes and surface wave absorbent material sprayed onto the leading edges, which together reduce the aircraft’s RCS by 70%. Two IAF Jag squadrons are believed to have adopted these stealth mods with the MiG-21, Mirage-2000 and MiG-29 also being considered.

Regarding lack of thrust, a senior Jaguar pilot at Ambala described the aircraft as “very stable, and comfortable at low level, compared to most of the other aircraft in the inventory.” He also said that “We generally train at 300 ft (91 m) and 500 ft (152 m). However medium-level ops have also started and as the Jaguar was never designed for this, it is HERE that the aircraft runs out of thrust in some profiles.”

Interestingly, the article also gives other updates-

– The IAF has ordered El/M-26000 radar targeting pods that have been ordered to give the Jag an all-weather strike capability
– Raytheon has begun to integrate its “plug-and-play” Munitions Control Unit (MCU) into the Jaguar fleet. The project to install the MCU into approx 120 DARIN II Jags is expected to be complete by second quarter 2010.
-The benefits of the MCU are that it will enable the Jag to employ the AGM-65 Maverick, AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon precision-attack glide bomb and the AIM-9M (why on earth this older gen one, i don’t know), using the existing stores management software with only minor mods to the aircraft’s wing.

Oh for crying out loud – relying on dodgy reports from the TOI which does not know its rear from its front does not get you or anyone for that matter, far. But mark it up for consistency – TOI continues to mark its time as the TOIlet paper of defence journalism.

Its sad to see the ToI going down so many notches in its reporting..there was a time when as a kid, I used to rush back home from school to read K. Subrahmanyam’s articles on defence, especially those related to the IAF..used to appear on the Editorial page..he now writes for the Hindu and ToI seems to (from their website and having read it in my previous 3-4 visits) be obsessed with masala news, gossip and bollywood..

found some old articles from Flight International that give an idea of the kind of delays the program suffered from thanks to US sanctions..had that not happened, the LCA would’ve flown first at least 3 years earlier itself, although in the long run, the fact that India developed the FCS and the computer on its own means that they learnt things no one else will teach.

link

DATE:07/04/99
SOURCE:Flight InternationalLCA remains on the ground as details of US sanctions emerge
Howard Gethin/LONDON

India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is continuing to undergo taxi trials, but remains grounded because of the lack of a reliable flight control computer. The system was impounded by US officials after Indian scientists working in the USA were sent home following India’s nuclear tests in May last year.

The fighter programme had been receiving assistance from Lockheed Martin, which was developing the flight control system in partnership with Indian scientists from the Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE)working in the USA. In particular, Lockheed Martin was helping with the aircraft’s digital flight control computer (DFCC).

Lockheed Martin Control Systems says that when the export/import licences to India were withdrawn and India’s ADE representatives were thrown out of the USA, they were prevented from taking the two DFCCs and associated test equipment. The DFCCs were built by Lockheed Martin. The test stands were assembled by ADE.

Lockheed Martin believes the Indians have constructed 10 more DFCCs and at least two more test stands in India.

Lockheed Martin and the ADE were in the process of system integration and testing when the licence was withdrawn last year. The US company estimates that about a year’s worth of work remained to be done at the point the assistance was withdrawn. It believes the Indians can continue development on their own, but that it will take them longer.

The Indian Government is reported to be in negotiations with the US Government and Lockheed Martin over the return of the DFCC, but “the USA is simply refusing to part with it” according to Indian media reports.

The LCA has been delayed by several years because of funding and technical problems. It was rolled out in 1995, but has yet to fly. A maiden flight is not expected until at least late this year.

article link

DATE:12/11/02
SOURCE:Flight InternationalBAE Systems resumes work on India’s LCA

BAE Systems is to resume delivery of flight control components for the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), halted in May 1998 by the US embargo imposed after India’s nuclear tests. The company’s US arm has received a $20 million contract to supply six shipsets of sensors and actuators for “four or five” production-representative LCAs planned by India’s Aero-nautical Development Establishment (ADE).

BAE Systems Controls (formerly part of Lockheed Martin) was jointly developing the fly-by-wire flight-control system with ADE when the embargo was imposed. The Indians completed development of the digital flight control computer. “They did an awful lot of work themselves,” says BAE’s LCA programme manager John McGrath.

ADE has flown two LCA technology demonstrators using sensors and actuators supplied before the embargo. Deliveries of the air-data and inertial sensors will resume in mid-2003, while actuator shipments will restart late in the year or early in 2004, says McGrath. Under the new contract, subcontractor Moog will complete environmental qualification testing on the actuators, which was interrupted when the embargo took effect.

McGrath expects India eventually to order additional sensors and actuators for the LCA production phase, while continuing to build the computer locally. The agreement with ADE provides for licence manufacture of the equipment in India, but there have been no talks yet on production, he says.

The embargo delayed the LCA first flight by five years to January last year. The second aircraft made its maiden flight in June this year. Eight production aircraft have been ordered for delivery from 2006.

article link

DATE:15/03/95
SOURCE:Flight InternationalIndia appeals for Israeli help on LCA
INDIA HAS turned to Israel in an attempt to rescue its faltering Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme. Talks between the two sides are under way about the Israelis providing electronic systems and know-how.

The discussions are taking place between Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) and India’s state-owned Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the management organisation for the LCA programme.

According to sources, India is asking for help in terms of “hardware and know-how.” The two sides are also believed to be discussing Israeli involvement in the flight test programme.

The aircraft is intended to replace the air force’s aging fleet of Mikoyan MiG-21s in the fighter/ground-attack role if a series of technical problems, which have delayed the programme for years can be overcome. The roll out of the LCA is expected in the next few months.

IAI is expected to draw on the experience and technology it gained on the abortive Lavi next-generation fighter programme of the 1980s. The company has already show itself willing to use Lavi technology on the export market. The part US-funded project is being drawn upon in the development of a next-generation fighter for China.

Along with Israeli technical assistance, the ADA is also looking for financial and marketing partners for the LCA programme. It has previously held talks with British Aerospace, Northrop, Saab and Dassault, but so far without success.

article link

DATE:01/07/98
SOURCE:Flight International
US sanctions delay first flight of India’s LCA
The first flight of India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) will be delayed until at least mid-1999 by US economic sanctions imposed following India’s nuclear tests.

Lockheed Martin, which was collaborating with India’s Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) on the LCA’s digital flight control system, estimates that it will take India “over a year” to complete verification of the software by itself.

India’s defence ministry, meanwhile, has admitted that the already delayed first flight has been pushed back from December to between April and July next year. The aircraft was rolled out in 1995 but has never been flown, mainly because of problems with the flight control system.

The US embargo has also blocked an Indian order for 30 LHTEC T800 turboshafts to power the first batch of Hindustan Aeronautics Advanced Light Helicopters (ALHs) for its navy. Deliveries were due to begin by the end of this year.

One ALH prototype is flying with T800s, and the other three are powered by Turboméca TM333s. France has not imposed sanctions on India.The TM333 engine is primarily destined for use on army versions of the helicopter.

Lockheed Martin was selected in 1993 to help the ADE design and develop the quadruplex-redundant flight control system for the LCA. When the embargo was imposed in mid-May, about 75% of the work had been completed and verification of the Indian-produced software was under way at the US company.

Indian engineers working with Lockheed Martin have returned to the Bangalore-based ADE. “They can complete the work, but it will take them longer,” the US company says.

General Electric has already supplied two F404 flight test engines to power the first LCA prototypes, and does not believe the embargo will prevent the aircraft being flown.

Engine ground runs began in April, and were scheduled to be completed in June. The plan is to switch to a indigenously developed engine for the production LCA.

Integration of the flight control system, which uses Lockheed Martin-supplied computers in the four planned prototypes, is scheduled to begin in October.

a higher resolution image from the ADA website

What about if its PM next?
And then the DM, FM, other Ms?
Can the IAF say no?

And are you sure if the president who actually asked for this in the first place, and that it wasn’t the IAF who approached her.

Just like yourself, Im also trying to understand the real value of something like this? In my opinion, asking a TV channel to organise a well publicised competition where the winner gets to spend a few days with IAF or gets a ride in MKI would probably be much better to achieve the goal, i.e. publicity/inspiration.

A previous Defence Minister has also done this, when he wanted to convince the public that the MiG-21 was safe to fly in. that was George Fernandes. BTW, the President is the Supreme Commander of the Indian Armed Forces, even if its only a title. It is she who wanted to fly, and her reasoning was she wanted to do it to “inspire” women. whatever, she’s hardly much to talk about, at least when compared to the previous President Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam.

and the IAF has done that other thing you suggested as well. Mission Udaan was what it was called and it was shown in India on Nat Geo. the winner is now in the US, getting a PPL.

IN looking at new aircraft due to issues with N-LCA
NEW DELHI: With the development of the naval version of the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) floundering, the Navy has launched a hunt for a new fighter to operate from its aircraft carriers in the pipeline.

Navy has issued an RFI (request for information) to several global aviation majors, including American Boeing, French Dassault and Russian MiG companies, for ‘an alternate deck-based aircraft’.

‘‘Information is being sought to acquire over 40 fighters for the 40,000-tonne IAC-I (indigenous aircraft carrier), being built at the Cochin shipyard and expected to roll out by 2014-2015 now, and IAC-II, which will follow later,’’ said a source.

As reported by TOI earlier, lack of long-term strategic planning has meant that the 28,000-tonne ageing carrier INS Viraat is fast running out of its Sea Harrier jump-jets, even as the first lot of MiG-29Ks for the 44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov will begin arriving in a few days but the carrier itself will come from Russia only in early-2013.

Apart from the 16 MiG-29Ks contracted along with Gorshkov’s refit in January 2004, India is also going to order 29 more MiG-29Ks for around $1.1 billion to operate them from both Gorshkov as well as IAC-I.

IAC-I was also supposed to operate the naval Tejas. ‘‘But now, Navy is also exploring other options for both IAC-I and II,’’ said the source.