Well, that’s why I like the idea of India joining with Boeing. As Lockheed Martin will have the lion share of the US Fighter Business for some time. So, its very much in the interest of the US to keep Boeing in the game. Further, while such a project would aid both the US and India. It would provide healthy competition vs Lockheed Martin 5th Generation Types like the F-22 and F-35.

while the idea of Boeing, and more specifically, IDS, with all its experience of building fighters will bring a lot to the table, one also has to take into account that India will not accept their participation if it means restrictive clauses on technology transfer and how the MCA will be used or whom it’ll be exported to. again, as of now, no reports of any collaboration have emanated.

then again, it could be a big opportunity for Boeing as well, because if they don’t start work on a 5th gen fighter, that would mean that they’re out of the manned fighter business once the F-35 enters service in numbers and proves itself better than the SH. The Strike/Slam Eagle line may not last much longer than 2014 considering that its not a major contender in any of the major competitions worldwide, excepting Japan maybe.

One major Plus in my book is its deterrent value. Imagine the Pakistanis getting block 52 mechanically scanned F 16s and us Indians Block 60 AESA ones, that too in higher number. And we all know how the Pakistanis pride themselves over their f 16s.

that won’t be an advantage for long..PAF will cry about it not having AESAs on its F-16s and eventually the US will fund the PAF F-16s getting the SABR or RANGR for free, as part of some military package, while IAF will have to pay for its own.

A very sane post! Definitely think this is closer to the truth. Also, Pakistan’s ballistic and cruise missile advantage would come into play. Aircraft are easy to replace, but pilots are a lot harder.

what ballistic and cruise missile advantage ? the IA inducted Brahmos cruise missiles and has Prithvis, Agnis..

IN to get 8 P-8I Poseidons

IN related news, but posting it here on the IAF thread, as it may have a bearing on the MRCA competition as well..

India inks largest-ever defence deal with US
5 Jan 2009, 0055 hrs IST, Rajat Pandit, TNN

NEW DELHI: The UPA government has quietly gone ahead and signed the biggest-ever defence deal with US: a $2.1 billion contract for eight Boeing P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) aircraft for Navy.

TOI had reported on December 27 that the huge deal was finally on the verge of being inked after protracted negotiations and clearance from the Cabinet Committee on Security.

The actual signing took place on January 1, with defence ministry’s joint secretary and acquisitions manager (maritime systems) Preeti Sudan and Boeing integrated defence systems vice-president and country head Vivek Lall signing the contract, sources said.

But, strangely enough, the defence ministry is keeping the deal under wraps. Incidentally, the previous NDA regime had also signed a flurry of mega defence deals — like the $1.5 billion one for Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov and $1.1 billion one for three Israeli ‘Phalcon’ AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) — in the run-up to the April-May 2004 general elections.

Sources said the P-8I contract was “a direct commercial agreement with Boeing”, with “some issues of end-use verification yet to be fully sorted out” with the US government.

As reported earlier, India and US are negotiating the End-Use Verification Agreement (EUVA) and the Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA), which are required under American laws to ensure compliance with sensitive technology control requirements.

The two pacts are required since India is now increasingly turning to US to buy military hardware and software. Though India does not have problems with safeguards, it does not want them to be “intrusive”.

In terms of the contract size, the P-8I deal supplants the $962 million deal signed with US in 2007 for six C-130J `Super Hercules’ aircraft for Indian special forces.

India will get the first P-8I towards end-2012 or early-2013, with the other seven following in a phased manner by 2015-2016. The contract also provides an option for India to order four to eight more such planes.

Armed with torpedoes, depth bombs and Harpoon anti-ship missiles, the P-8I will also be capable of anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface warfare. They will replace the eight ageing and fuel-guzzling Russian Tupolev-142M turboprops currently being operated by Navy.

The P-8I planes will help in plugging the existing voids in Navy’s maritime snooping capabilities, having as they will an operating range of over 600 nautical miles, with `5.5 hours on station’.

Customised for India and based on the Boeing 737 commercial airliner, the P-8I will actually be a variant of the P-8A Poseidon multi-mission maritime aircraft currently being developed for US Navy, which has ordered 108 of them to replace its P-3C Orion fleet. India, of course, remains unhappy over the US decision to sell more P-3C Orions, armed with Harpoon missiles, to Pakistan.

At present, the Navy uses the TU-142Ms, IL-38SDs and Dorniers for surveillance operations in the Indian Ocean region. It is also now in the hunt for six advanced medium-range maritime reconnaissance planes, for around Rs 1,600 crore, to further boost its snooping capabilities.

For innermost layer surveillance, up to 200 nautical miles, Navy is going in for two more Israeli Heron UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles), with three ground control stations and two ship control stations, for Rs 386 crore after successfully deploying eight Searcher-II and four Heron UAVs. There is also the Rs 1,163 crore joint Indo-Israeli project for developing rotary-wing UAVs for use from warships.

How can an aircraft be contender in a competition, that wouldn’t exist in the first place, if this very aircraft would be available and up to expectations ?:diablo:

ask Saab about that..they’ve pitched a Gripen NG that is not even in prototype form as yet, and simply has a Gripen Demo that should look like the final product..the version they’re offering isn’t flying, its AESA is still in prototype form.

and they’ve been rejected by Norway already, and they’re now pitching a notional 5th gen fighter to S.Korea and in the process are trying to get them interested in the NG as well

Maybe in size and the twin tail, but no greater resemblace.

they’re both delta wing fighters, and should both use systems and avionics that will be validated by the Gripen and Tejas.

the general layout (excepting the canards) and probable weight range seems close to that of the MCA, whose probable configuration can be seen from an ADA presentation a couple of years ago..it may have changed as well.

DATE:06/10/08
SOURCE:Flight International

India reveals plan to develop indigenous medium fighter
By Radhakrishna Rao

The Indian air force has approached the Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which designed and developed India’s fourth-generation Tejas light combat aircraft, to prepare a detailed project report on the development of 20t medium combat aircraft (MCA) with stealth features.

To help phase out the air force’s Dassault Mirage 2000 and Hindustan Aeronautics-built Sepecat Jaguar strike aircraft by around 2015, the proposed twin-engined MCA would also augment the service’s Sukhoi Su-30MKIs and its planned future fleet of at least 126 medium multirole combat aircraft.

Strategic analysts in India believe the air force’s involvement augurs well for speeding up the project, as the service only had a peripheral role in developing the delayed Tejas, which is expected to be inducted into service from 2010. The new aircraft is also expected to use radar asorbent materials developed in India to reduce its radar cross-section.

The MCA is expected to be powered by a higher-thrust version of the Gas Turbine Research Establishment Kaveri engine to potentially be developed in co-operation with Snecma. The air force has formed a committee to analyse the French company’s offer of assistance, and will study issues such as cost, manufacturing details and technology transfer for the design, which could take five or six years to gain certification.

The Kaveri has proven unsuitable to power the single-engined Tejas, with a replacement engine to be selected from either the Eurojet EJ200 or General Electric F414.

Meanwhile, India’s plan to participate in a fifth-generation fighter project with Russia is expected to be finalised by year-end, with HAL’s role yet to be defined. United Aircraft president Alexey Fedorov says a prototype of the aircraft will be ready for trials during 2009.

a very skewed and biased analysis..the figures on the serviceability and combat effectiveness are mostly just pulled out of the air and have no source to back them up. fact is, if a neutral observer, or one who wouldn’t want to rile others, came up with the figures, the PAF’s scores would fall significantly compared to the inflated figures shown and vice versa with the IAF’s figures.

if a war was to start, the IAF would put ALL its resources into it, as was shown during Kargil, when they even went to the extent of finding old bombs in some depot, getting laser fuses and then used Mirage-2000TH’s for the first time ever, to drop LGBs..the entire process was perfected over a week or so. the serviceability would be near 90% then, with technicians working non-stop or in extended shifts to keep the aircraft airborne and operational.

of course, all of this is very inconvenient for the author of this thread, so he’ll continue to ignore it. :rolleyes: