Thanks Dionis…

…sounds familiar.

I guess the T-50 and X-32 share the same engine radar blocker design in the inlet, i was thinking it was the system but my ignorance made me doubt about it but the PAK FA inlets seems to have a system like that not like the one seen in the B-1B but the one on the F-18E and X-32

The PAK FA looks so so a hybrid ofthe F-22, F-23 and the Su-27, i do not like it too much but it might get better in the operational version, i like more the F-22 and i can not see any influence of India technologically speaking beyond possibly money and the LEVCON (if there is any reason to believe the levcon is an Indian intelectual property since it is applied to the LCA), besides that the flight was in Russia and the Pilot Russian and it looked pretty much like India only bought a license agreement to build it all the press also looked russian and the technicians and engineers the same for me is a Russian aircraft sponsored by Indian money

According to what he said.

Some of these sources should be from USSR magzine,isn’t it?

The original source for that article is not russian is TOM COOPER, however you will find other russian sources that say they delivered them in 1973, but there are discrepancies even among russian websites, so some say delivered in 1973 but other say a MiG-21 shot down that F-4.

^^^ a j-10 with stealth skin and internal bays is definitely possible. Whether the avionics of all the 5th gen fighters are a match that’s a different story. Regardless of avionics, they all get to be called 5th gen. A Gripen could be made into a fifth gen canard design too.

That is a bit far off the real stealth fighters of 5th generation let us put a F-18E, it is a stealthy fighter with stealthy inlets that does not mean is a 5th generation aircraft, China probably is lying either they have a very advance design and this is not a J-10 based aircraft or simply they do not have anything in the level of the PAK FA and F-22

Yeppp … it seems as

… seems the original source of the english version from the link above !

Deino

Sounds to me the J-10 can not be modified into a F-22 type aircraft, not even the J-10B, sounds like they want to either misinform or simply bluff the media.

Even Russia made a J-10 type aircraft the MiG-1.44 but they decided for the PAK FA, why? simply not so competitive to an F-22

There is no prove again regarding the copy of engine. FWS-10 is clearly different from AL-31 engine as proven in previous post. So I do not understand what is term of copy. If it is such a big issue, why Saturn still supply engines to China?

What’s wrong? AL-31FN is for J-10. J-11B definitely uses FWS-10. Both are producing hand in hand. It a win win situation for CHinese. If the Russian refuse to deliver or sell. It just a matter of time FWS-10a gets onto J-10.
And yr article stated, China RESERVED THE RIGHT to put order in 2010. Why not comfirm the deal and must reserved the right? Clearly this is a back up plan for J-10 engine if domestic engine cannot meet the schedule.

Why you get an extreme position?
this is the way i see things, definitively the Chinese have advanced a lot, the WS-10 must be on par in some aspects to the AL-31, definitively the Russians know what the Chinese do, simply the Su-27 is being built in China, they know also what information has been leaked from Russia to China by non official sources and they do know Chinese practices.

However the WS-10 is not used on the J-10 for a single reason admitted even by the Chinese themselves, the WS-10 is not as reliable as the Al-31NF to be used on a single engine fighter.

Now use the logic if the Al-31 is used on J-10s is simply because it is better at least from the reliability point of view, and the Russians know the Chinese want to copy the technology that makes it reliable in order to stop buying AL-31s.

But now the Russians know the game, like the British with the Spey will only allow the Chinese to build some parts and they will sell the key components.

Will China surpass the AL-31? of course, at least the initial models but not the 117s or Al-41 for at least a decade.
Will they some day surpass Russia? probably yes if Russia allows it, but in the mean time Russia is not willing to accept more of what China has done.

Has the WS-10 some local and domestic technology? well it must be but not to say they have not learnt from others or even copied.

And Saturn knows now the game they will make it harder for China to copy russian technology.

We need to talk on things based on facts! Pride can be a thing that makes them do that. Some Russian engineer just used assumption to jump to their conclusion.

The Russian may also under the instruction of their superior to strain relation between US and Israel.

The fact, it cannot be verify by Janes might be just a makeup story to sell their issue for that month. Actually no such Russian engineer make that comment. Pure rubbish!

We need facts! U shall know the rules of the game! :rolleyes:

Independiently of your assumptions, most russian webpages, sources and SIBNIA will say that, of course the Chinese do use propaganda too.

The comment comes from SIBNIA in a comment stated by them in Farnbourough 2006
Chaplygin Siberian Aeronautical Research Institute / SIBNIA

Polzunov St., 21. Novosibirsk-51, 630051. Russia
Tel.: (7-3832) 770156
Fax: (7-3832) 778941
Telex: 133104 ASTR SU
E-Mail: [email]SAN@SIBNIA.NSK.SU[/email]

The Institute focuses on the following aspects: research and development of aircraft in the field of aerodynamics, flight dynamics, aircraft resistance and aircraft performance, comprehensive airworthiness assessment of airplanes and helicopters: airworthiness assessment of ground effect machines as regards aerodynamics, strength, safe fatigue life and reliability of the aircraft: approval tests of various machines in Siberia and the Far East including issuing certificates; development of production of certain products traditionally produced by the Institute; other activities.

So you like it or not that instituet said it.

Article from Strategy Page

China Struggles To Build An F-22
November 17, 2009

The Chinese Air Force has announced that it has a F-22 type aircraft ready to make its first flight within a year. The Chinese believe this aircraft will enter service within ten years. U.S. intelligence believes the Chinese are nowhere near this kind of capability. But given the quantity and quality of data Chinese hackers have been stealing in the past five years, it’s possible that they have much of the American technology that makes the F-22 and F-35 possible. Some believe that the Chinese also have a F-35 type design in the works as well.

American intel analysts believe that Chinese aviation technology (both design and manufacturing) is not yet capable of producing F-22/F-35 class aircraft. Given the experience with the first two Chinese designed and manufactured jet fighters (J-10 and JF-17), there is much doubt that China is capable of making the leap to F-22 class fighters. The big bottleneck is jet engine technology.

For two decades now, China has been developing the manufacturing technology for aircraft engines, the key component of any high performance aircraft. So far, China has been unable to create the manufacturing technology and personnel skills that are needed to make the engines for their most advanced jet fighters. For example, China is a major customer for Russian RD93 engines (originally designed for the MiG-29), and has bought over a thousand of them. The RD93 engines currently cost about $2.5 million each.

China has been developing a similar (apparently identical) engine to the RD93, the WS-13. Actually, this effort is being aided by Russia, which is selling China technology needed for the manufacture of key engine components. Russia isn’t happy about this, because they don’t want competition in the low cost jet engine market. Then again, China has a history of stealing technology it cannot buy, so the Russians are making the best of a bad situation. China says the WS-13 is nearly ready for service. Maybe, maybe not. Recently, China ordered another hundred RD93s. Building high performance military jet engines is difficult, and China has had problems mastering this kind of stuff. Not that they will not eventually acquire the skills, but until they do, they need the Russian made RD93s. Officially, more RD93 are being bought because China cannot produce enough of their WS-13s.

Chinese engineers also thought they had managed to master the manufacturing techniques needed to make a Chinese copy of the Russian AL31F engine. This Chinese copy, the WS10A, was meant for the Chinese J-10 fighter, which entered service two years ago. But the Chinese Air Force was not satisfied with the reliability or performance of the WS10A, and have ordered another hundred AL31Fs from Russia, in order to continue building J-10s. Meanwhile, Russian efforts to build an improved AL31 for their own F-22 competitor, have run into serious problems. Will the Chinese suddenly do better than their tutors?

The J-10 is the first modern jet fighter designed and built in China. The aircraft is an attempt to create a modern fighter-bomber that could compete with foreign designs. The experiment was not completely successful. Work on the J-10 began over twenty years ago, in an attempt to develop an aircraft that could compete with the Russian MiG-29s and Su-27s, and the American F-16. But the first prototype did not fly until 1998. There were problems, and it wasn’t until 2000 that the basic design flaws were fixed. By 2002, nine prototypes had been built, and flight testing was going forward to find, and fix, hundreds of smaller problems. It was a great learning experience for Chinese engineers, but it was becoming apparent that the J-10 was not going to be competitive with the Su-27s/30s China was buying from Russia. The J-10 looks something like the American F-16, and weighs about the same (19 tons). Like the F-16, and unlike the Su-27, the J-10 has only one engine.

The 13 ton JF-17, which uses the RD93, is meant to be a low cost alternative to the American F-16. It was developed in cooperation with Pakistan. The JF-17 is considered the equal to earlier versions of the F-16, but only 80 percent as effective as more recent F-16 models. The JF-17 design is based on a cancelled Russian project, the MiG-33. Most of the JF-17 electronics (in the Pakistani version) are Western, with Italian firms being major suppliers. The JF-17 can carry 3.6 tons of weapons and use radar guided and heat seeking missiles. It has max speed of nearly 2,000 kilometers an hour, an operating range of 1,300 kilometers and a max altitude of 55,000 feet. China has not yet decided on whether it will use the FC-1/JF-17 itself. This is apparently because China believes its own J-10 (another local design) and J-11 (a license built Russian Su-27) are adequate for their needs. The J-10, like the JF-17, did not work out as well as was hoped.

Source: China Struggles To Build An F-22

If the PLAAF does field a 5th Gen fighter, sometime between 2015-2025, how many do you think they would induct into squadron service? Most likely they would be reserved for their top guns, or aces, or honchos, or whatever you wanna call ’em.

By that time, the USAF would have been fielding the F-22C variant of the Raptor. Japan, Israel and Australia would have been foreign Raptor operators by then.

This makes sense