Oddly, both aircraft had similar sized and configured engines. Comes of being descended from the original Whittle designed centrifugal flow engines that were sent to the US during the war, and traded to the Russians after the war. Performances were enhanced by swept wings and other aerodynamic refinements.

The main reason for the difference in fuselage geometry is IIRC – on the Sabre the intake duct goes under the cockpit while on the Mig it is bifurcated and rundown the side.

Essentially the Mig17 was the Mig15 developed to what the initial design concept wanted and including the lessons learnt from Korea. These aircraft all date from before area rule was recognised, but at their performance levels it was not a problem.

The Mig17 was a real workhorse, and overall was a match for most western fighters of the period and in its class. It certainly put a dent in the American’s opinion of their technological superiority over North Vietnam.

It’s strange, the Mig17 was the most effective fighter the NVAF had,
even though it was one of the oldest.
It’s great manuverability, and powerful guns made it a tough opponent.

PLANEGUY51

Interesting to see the aircraft together and from a similar angle like this – shows a fair amount about their differing design philosophies. The MiG seems quite bulged aft of the wing roots while the F86 is more slender. Is this rudimentary, design-by-feel area ruling or just the result of an engine with a bigger cross section.

Did Mikoyan-Gurevich have access to axial flow engines by then or was it using RR Nene-derivatives?

The US used the German research data to design the F86.
It appears the Russians used the data from “their” German scientists.
They also purchased a Nene engine from the British, and copied it.

PLANEGUY51

Mig and Sabre

F-86/Mig Folks:

Somewhere in the US. c. 2005 Photo Via J. Akerboon

Nice Picture!!!!
Two great evenly matched adversaries.
Thanks.

Migs and Sabres

I was musing yesterday that during the Vietnam War the Americans initially had a fair ammount of difficulty against the MiG-17. As we are all aware this nessecitated a radical change in training for fighter pilots to bring back ACM and stop the reliance on missiles.

During the Vietnam the RAAF was tasked with protecting UBON RTAFB and the Thai border using CAC CA-27 Sabre Mk 32. These aircraft had half again more power that the F-86E/F because of the RR Avon (IIRC only about maybe 50% of the airframe was common) and were armed with 2 x 30mm Aden guns and 2 x AIM-9B Sidewinders. The RAAF also never lost it’s ACM training or ability.

Whilst there was no “reported” contacts between these aircraft I think the Sabre Mk 32 would have be the answer to take on MiG-17 and probably would have faired better the the F-4 (at least until the F-4 got the while BVR / AIM-7 thing worked out).

Flame suit on 🙂

Excellent post Spiteful.
I agree, the Sabre MK 32 would have been a good match for the MIG17.
The F8 Crusader was called the “Mig Master”.
The F8 was designed for dogfighting, and shot down 19 Migs, while losing
only 3 F8’s.
Another reason for it’s good record, was the Crusader pilots continued
to practice ACM, after the advent of missles.
You also inadvertantly answered a question that’s been bugging me for years.
I have seen pictures of RAAF Sabres flying over Vietnam, but could find no
further information on it.
You made my day my friend.

Have a good one.
PLANEGUY51