Spanish police halted the illegal export of nine Bell-112 military transport helicopters to Iran and detained eight people including three Iranians, they said May 26.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=6631379&c=AIR&s=MID

Funny

Hi there, I come in peace !:)

I’ve been looking at the picts of the Typhoon over Libya, and I can’t shake the feeling that I do not understand the location of the L3 pod. Is it temporary or is it going to reamain there ?

I think that Indian MMRCA tender is the best opportunity for Rafale to get the order. They will have to really muck it up to lose it. I have strong feeling that they might try to be too clever on price and that will be sad day for Rafale

The best opportunity for Rafale is still the UAE.

Well that’s nice a report written in 2007!

Do you have a problem with nuances, and past tenses ? I said it might be a plus, then that’s what they wanted originally…

Anyway just because you’ve been a bad boy/girl…:rolleyes:

A flying lemon

The sale of Rafale or Eurofighter to India is a lifeline to both the Dassault Company and the French aviation sector generally and the four-country consortium producing, so far unviably, the latter aircraft that an expert acquaintance dismissed as something “Germany doesn’t want, Britain can’t afford, and Spain and Italy neither want nor can afford!” But, leverage-wise, it affords India traction with four European countries instead of just France in case Rafale is taken. But is either of these aircraft genuinely multi-role?

Dr Carlo Kopp, an internationally renowned combat aviation specialist, deems the Typhoon, a non-stealthy, short-range (300 nautical miles) air defence/air dominance fighter optimised for transonic manoeuvres, more a “lemon” than a “demon”. Italian Air Force Chief Gen. Vincenzo Camporini, moreover, declared in 2008 that this plane was incapable of an “attack role in an economically sustainable manner”, in part because EADS has no AESA radar. It hopes to develop one with the infusion of Indian monies if Typhoon is selected. Realistically, India will not get the strike variant until well into the 2020s as the Royal Air Force and the German Luftwaffe, for starters, will have the first lien on it. In short, for over a third of its lifetime, the IAF will have to make do with the more limited air defence version which, in effect, is an avionics-wise souped-up, ergonomically improved, MiG-21! Moreover, to expect timely, coordinated, supply of spares and service support from 20-odd countries (including Croatia!) roped into the Eurofighter programme will be a compounded logistics and maintenance nightmare.

Rafale is a smaller, semi-stealth plane with slightly better un-refuelled range than the Typhoon but, equipped with the RBE-22A AESA radar, can undertake ground attack, including nuclear weapon delivery. Critically, it has finessed the algorithm (patented, incidentally, by an Indian scientist) for more effective fusion of data from numerous on-board and external sensors (such as satellite) better than the Eurofighter. Except, as late as 2009, Rafale was ruled operationally inadequate perhaps because it is less agile in “dogfighting” — a role the IAF brass remains enamoured with long after advanced tactical missiles have made close-quarter aerial battle history. Rafale and Typhoon nevertheless cost a bomb, with the MMRCA eventually coming in at around $20 billion.

IMPACTS OF THE INDIAN FIGHTER COMPETITION
by Robbin Laird

05/16/2011

India is clearly a key player in shaping the future of Chinese power, globally and in the Pacific. At the same time, the significant 2nd and 3rd world fighter market will be dominated by exports from China, Russia, India or Brazil.

Neither the U.S. nor Europe is planning a lower cost export fighter. Indian leadership when they saw the Chinese role out of the J-20 understood its impact on global markets. This is an advanced aircraft, which will have implications for upgrades for customers of Chinese fighter aircraft.

The Bush and Obama Administrations have seen the Indian fighter contract as a cornerstone of building military relationships as part of the curtailment of China.

U.S. commentators have largely interpreted the elimination of the US aircraft as due to the inability of the U.S. to transfer advanced technology to India, the US lost. This is at best a generous interpretation.

These are 40 year old air frames; and the uncertain technology transfer process surrounding the U.S. offerings certainly raised questions in the Indian minds about the ability moving forward to upgrade its new franchise combat aircraft.

Either Eurofighter or Rafale promise a much newer airframe, with upgrade paths. And a merging of India with European combat aircraft expertise could provide a significant boost to exports into the 2nd and 3rd world.

And this puts the Europeans dead center into the question of the evolution of Chinese military capabilities. They will be part of the effort to constrain China, whether they want to or not.

The Geopolitics

The Indian leadership has made it quite clear that one has to choose between Pakistan and India. And the recent findings from the elimination of Number 1 in the most famous global terrorist organization – Osama Bin Laden – have not helped.

Indians believe that the Pakistani military and government are harboring terrorists and the long stay of Bin Laden in Pakistan certainly seems to be puzzling.

The U.S. is engaged in a campaign with no end in Afghanistan, what a colleague called a permanent IDIQ for the US Army; continues raids into Pakistan which both result in, from an Indian point of view, downplaying the significance of India. The elimination of U.S . aircraft is surely part of this process. And also raise questions about the other programs in play, the P-8 and the C-17.

One could note as well the absence of focus in Europe on what it means if Europe and India get joined at the hip on building new fighter aircraft for the indefinite future.

First, Europe or at least part of Europe, now has to back India in any fight with China.

Second, the EU commission’s notion of lifting Arms Embargos against China is certainly challenged by Europe’s own actions.

Thirdly, the balancing of China and India now becomes a core European priority.

Fourth, and how will European labor unions respond to the transfer of the future of European fighter combat construction to India?

And for the U.S. it is also clear that Eurofighter or Rafael will not be the last manned combat aircraft built by Europeans. The European engagement in JSF is significant and will continue.

But now there is an alternative track being generated by the prospects of a Euro-Indian combat air project. Of course, potential is not actuality. And many challenges have to be met on the path of a new combat aircraft coming from the Indian-European partnership, but certainly there is a distinct possibility.

Potential Impacts on the Global Defense Industry

But the Indian decision to downselect European combat aircraft does raises a number of core questions about the potential impacts on the global defense industry.

First, whichever European company or consortium wins will be in a key position to build a new manned fighter for Europe itself in the future. There is significant potential for India and Europe to sort through a collaborative effort, which will not just be about SELLING a fighter TO India, but rather reshaping European offerings to Europe in the future.

Second, assuming the Indian collaboration can yield a cost effective and capable product, such a product could become globally viable with significant 2nd and 3rd world sales opportunities.

Third, perhaps the Euro-Indian team could also anchor a version of the SAAB global offerings. SAAB has offered a combat aircraft and a command and control aircraft and would clearly wish to add a UAV to the mix. There is a potential to take the Euro-Indian team into such waters whereby sensors and weapons can be distributed across three platforms, unmanned, manned and C4ISR.

Fourth, the Chinese-Indian competition just ramped up in the aerospace field. Now Europe will have an interesting problem managing the competition. India would clearly like offsets from whomever will win which will embed European aerospace further into a partnership with India. How will China respond to all of this?

Fifth, and not forgetting the United States: Will its offerings in India make it through the Obama Administration’s policy machinery on technology transfer issues. And let us be clear it is not about transferring technology it is about having a timely, transparent and well managed PROCESS to work with partners.

The Eurofighter Factor

What are the strategic potentials of a Eurofighter in India from an industrial point of view?

Much depends on what India is able to do and can re-organize itself to do. If properly organized, India could shape a significant aerospace future and Eurofighter could become a key stimulant to such a future.

The collaboration necessary to make Eurofighter work in India – with significant local support – requires more than simply transferring technology. It requires in effect a European and Indian concurrent engineering process. If such a process can be shaped in the period of constructing, enabling and supporting an Indian Eurofighter then several other possibilities emerge.

An Indian-European congruent engineering capability could shape the future of exports from India to the second and third world combat aircraft markets. Here European engineering excellence combined with Indian manufacturing capabilities and IT excellence could create a global gamechanger. Not exactly Tata Nanos for the aerospace market but you get the point.

The congruence could craft the next generation of manned European combat aircraft as well. Such an aircraft could be designed with the other innovations in mind with significant impact, namely 5th generation aircraft and remotely piloted aircraft (RPAs).

Then the possibility of working a sensor and processing enterprise across manned assets –combat aircraft and command and control aircraft – as well as RPAs can be envisaged. For different clients, different mixes of sensors and communication and management assets could be placed on the combat versus large aircraft versus UAV platforms. Such mix and match possibilities could drive serious innovation.

And finally, EADS as key Eurofighter company has other assets of interest to India, such as Airbus commercial and military Airbus platforms. A400Ms and A330 tankers could be in play, and notably related to the sensor enterprise discussed above. The air tanker is an especially interesting platform to include in the mix because of all the space inside the A330 tanker, which can be used for C2 and related options.

And of course, Airbus, unlike Boeing, has demonstrated a willingness to build overseas final assembly plants. The US after turning down the opportunity to build tankers in Mobile, Alabama, and freighters and future Airbus commercial products may be shocked to see such facilities some day in India.

The Rafale Factor

The French Rafale is one of the two European aircraft downselected in the Indian fighter competition. Although the plane has yet to win an export order, the flagship Dassault combat aircraft has progressed to the point that India as well as Brazil could seriously select it as their next generation combat aircraft.

A major advantage vis a vis Eurofighter is that the Indians already have in their Russian aircraft a higher altitude combat aircraft and in this way similar to Eurofighter. And when the Indians did not select the engine for their light combat aircraft from the consortium supplying the Eurofighter engine, many analysts assumed this meant that Eurofighter would not be downselected in the fighter competition. A GE engine was selected for the LCA.

GE F414 Engines Selected to Power India LCA Program | Air Force News at DefenseTalk

The Rafale is a multi-mission aircraft closer to the F-16 or F-18 class aircraft than to the F-15 or the Eurofighter. Several Indian sources have made it clear to SLD that the class of aircraft, which the F-16 represents, is in the sweet spot of their needs.

As such, the Rafale has advantages.

The French Air Force and Navy have evolved the aircraft over the past few years in actual operational settings; as such the aircraft has demonstrated its multi-mission capabilities and ability to be supported in relatively austere settings.

General Bansard on Logistics and Sustainment in France (Part Two) | SLDInfo

Alain Bonny On: Rafale Care, One Year Later | SLDInfo

The Rafale has been used effectively in combat operations, and demonstrated its ability for flexible operations.

French Ops in Libya | SLDInfo

The Future of C2 | SLDInfo

Rafale has a naval version, which is clearly of interest to the Indian Navy and its evolution of carrier aviation.

France-Etats-Unis : interopérabilité croissante | SLDInfo.com/fr

Le Charles de Gaulle : cinquième déploiement en Océan indien en moins de dix ans | SLDInfo.com/fr

There is a common concern of those countries, which have NOT selected Rafale, and that is the belief that the plane is underpowered. And this certainly is not the case with the Eurofighter. Might this mean that the SNECMA engine could be replaced in favor of a GE-Snecma variant yet to be determined? Or do the French and Indians work on a new engine? Or that simply the aircraft continues as it is in the competition and if it wins, continues the course?

A Dassault-Thales team would be at the heart of any alliance with the Indians in shaping the future of Rafale. Thales as a global company could become significantly enhanced in its ability to shape price competitive products with such an alliance, and be well positioned in the next decades both for products in the second and third world as well as working a new basis for R and D and manufacturing in their European operations.

Conclusion

The Indian downselect has the distinct possibility of reshaping the global competition in global combat aircraft, and indeed in shaping the future of air operations for years to come. So why ignore it?

There is a shift in the tectonic plates going on and the Washington crowd is missing in action. After all, inside the beltway is not the center of the universe. I think the flat earth society would love the Washington fixation with itself.

Impacts of the Indian Fighter Competition | SLDInfo

European Consortium’s Eurofighter and French Dassault’s Rafale were at last the two jets to make to the final two. The Rafale has the advantage of being logistically and operationally similar to the Mirage 2000, which the IAF already operates and used with great success during the Kargil War. This would require fewer changes in the existing infrastructure of the IAF, which in turn will reduce cost. Moreover, being 100 per cent French also provided Dassault a distinct edge over its competitors on the issue of technology transfer. Dassault claims that the Rafale has an advantage over many of the competitors because it is not subject to ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) restrictions. Dassault has also offered to fit the Kaveri engine into the Rafale, which, if chosen, would greatly improve commonality with the LCA Tejas aircraft. The French government has also cleared full technology transfer of the Rafale to India, including that of the RBE2-AA Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar. France also agreed to transfer software source codes, which will allow Indian scientists to re-programme a radar or any sensitive equipment if needed.

Eurofighter is offering the Tranche-3 Typhoon for the Indian requirement, equipped with the Captor-E (CAESAR) AESA radar. EADS has also invited India to become a partner of the Eurofighter Typhoon programme if the Typhoon wins the contract, and will be given technological and development participation in future tranches of the Typhoon. Bernhard Gerwert, CEO of EADS Defense Department, elaborated that if India becomes the fifth partner of the Eurofighter programme, it will be able to manufacture assemblies for new Eurofighters. EADS also offered to include thrust vectoring nozzles (TVNs) with the Typhoon’s EJ200 engines for India. Thrust vectoring will improve operational capabilities, and reduce fuel burn by up to 5 percent and increase thrust while supersonic cruising by 7 percent. At Aero India 2011 Eurofighter and partner company BAE Systems unveiled for the first time more details about the studies carried out for the initial definition of the navalised version of the Typhoon which could be offered to the Indian Navy.

http://www.defenceaviation.com/2011/04/eurofighter-and-rafale-finalists-in-indian-mmrca-competition.html

Eyeing lucrative IAF jet deal, France, Germany spar in public

French diplomats… the greatest threat to rafale’s exports !