Don’t take your desire for reality. You simply have no proofs of how aircrafts were evaluated in Switzerland and India. The only thing sure is that the “highlight” of Switzerland evaluation was a scenario where each competitor had to scramble to intercept a high altitude Mach 1.5 F18 SH. This scenario should have been made for the Typhoon yet it scored worse than the rafale.

It has nothing to do with desire and everything do with military doctrines. Unlike the IAF the SAF is restricted in terms of its area of responsibility as well as its strategic objectives in wartime.

Like the Swedes the Swiss train to fight as underdogs while utilizing the terrain to inflict maximum attrition. That means having airbases in caverns in mountainsides, and flying at low altitudes to minimize the risk of early detection, rather than going toe-to-toe against a numerically superior adversary that presumably has AWACS support.

The IAF’s chosen aircraft on the other hand will be required to dominate its sector in a more conventional scenario.

And what do you mean the ‘highlight’ was an intercept against the Super Hornet? First off where did they get the SH from?

Second, and more importantly, such evaluation trials aren’t typically head-to-head challenges. The objective (atleast as far as the IAF trials went) is to physically verify the performance of each aircraft type, as opposed to taking the glossy brochure claims at face value. Pitting it against a specific aircraft (like say the Su-30MK or F-16) introduces a large element of subjectivity to the competition which goes against the original principle.

Or some are wishing that there are no link :D;)

ie : aircraft would not be evaluated “that” differently in india or Dassault would not have financial margins like in switzerland…

They are evaluated differently.

As far as performance goes – the IAF would have had a greater stress on BVR capability and high altitude high speed performance while the SAF would presumably require an aircraft excelling in the low altitude high AoA regime for pop-up attacks and low speed dogfights in mountainous terrain (they did opt for the F-18 over the bestselling F-16).

As far as financial terms goes – the deliveries to Switzerland were of a French built Rafale from a relatively efficient Dassault production line (I believe workers alternate with the Falcon line), while the bulk of the Indian order is for license produced aircraft. Also while I’m not very familiar with the Swiss offset requirements, they certainly weren’t as steep as the 50% specified by the Indian MoD.

Or maybe the logical answer. Rafale has won, but they are having a hard time to match the off-set deals offered by Typhoon. So it takes some time to get the deal done.

Err… those aren’t mutually exclusive factors. The technical phase of evaluation is over. The flyaway cost is nearly at par for both aircraft. At this stage its only a question of operating cost over the lifetime and the value of the offset/industrial proposals.

The Gripen would have had a significant edge over the EF as far operating cost goes. The Rafale’s advantage (if any) is considerably less stark (lower fuel consumption, but pricier spares and after sales support).

So saying that the Eurofighter’s industrial offer is the biggest hurdle to a Rafale’s victory … is kind of stating the obvious.

The UK would never buy a complete aircraft manufactured by Dassault in France. A licence production in the UK would be the only solution..

For an order of 15-20 aircraft, setting up even an assembly line in the UK (let alone production infrastructure) would be prohibitively expensive.

How late can the F-35C possibly be? Two years? Three? Even though the smart money would say it will be available by 2020.

But lets assume that there is a five year gap between getting the QE operational and receiving the F-35C.

1. An outright purchase of an expensive new bird like the Rafale or Super Hornet is possible but unlikely. It means sustaining, maintaining and upgrading a new independent platform for the next 30 years. While there’s no harm in examining the possibility through official channels, I don’t see it being ordered. Unlike Australian scenario prior to the SH order, there’s no imminent shortfall expected in the RAF’s air defence or strike capability.

2. Lease a squadron or two of either of aircraft for interim training. But it doesn’t seem likely that the AdA, MN or USN would have aircraft to spare.

3. Navalizing the Eurofighter is still a viable option. There appears to be some political support for it. It wouldn’t be cheap but at least the money be invested into the domestic economy unlike an (inevitably) off-the-shelf order for the SH or Rafale.

4. Another option would be to purchase a fleet of light carrier capable aircraft. The objective being to train the ship’s crew as well as a complement of pilots and support personnel, in carrier operations on what would be a completely new ship design, so that the F-35C can be inducted with minimum hassle.

Two aircraft come to mind – the T-45C Goshawk (or a variant thereof) and the naval Tejas. Both are cheap enough to be sold off after 15-20 years or transferred to ETPS while being adequate to the task at hand. The T-45C being primarily a trainer is cheaper and BAE produced but at the same time may not be able to operate from the QE (it appears only the PoW is being equipped with the EMALS).

As said before everything is possible.
The good questions are
at what cost ?
and will the result worth the money spent ?

Absolutely. Yes the cost would not have been insignificant but at the same time, it wouldn’t have been prohibitive either. The issue here is that the UK has invested $2.5 billion+ into the JSF program (plus another $1 billion from Italy).

If a single aircraft type was called for (like the Rafale for France), the Eurofighter could have been navalized for that amount quite comfortably (though it may not have been compatible with the Cavour-class).

Eurofighter Lowest Bidder In Indian MMRCA Bid, Sources Tell Newspaper

I’d been very wary all weekend about posting about a very strong rumour that’s been doing the rounds specifically for the last five days or so, but now a mainsteam Indian business newspaper (Mint) has a piece today leading with precisely that — word that the Eurofighter Typhoon has been identified by the Indian MoD as the lowest bidder (L1) in India’s monumental $20-billion medium multirole combat aircraft (M-MRCA) competition.

Obviously, there is no official confirmation of this, and there is unlikely to be any until a formal announcement is made either way. The competition has been marked by hearsay and rumours right through its life (sometimes, vendors have leapt in to correct them), and I’m only putting this post up since a mainstream newspaper has put it down in print (and that I’d heard the rumour as well). It’s delicate right now.

The referenced article in Mint –

Govt to soon close deal for fighter jets

The two remaining contenders in the deal are likely to be called by the defence ministry on Thursday

Aman Malik

New Delhi: The Eurofighter Typhoon may have emerged as the lowest bidder (L1) in the multi-billion dollar deal to procure 126 fighter jets for the Indian Air Force (IAF), according to people familiar with the matter.

Mint could not independently verify this.

The two remaining contenders in the deal are likely to be called by the defence ministry on Thursday, these people said on condition of anonymity.

The Eurofighter Typhoon is promoted by European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co., or EADS. The other contender vying for the L1 slot is the Rafale, promoted by Dassault SA.

This is the second unconfirmed rumor that’s come out. Last Saturday IDRW posted this –

MMRCA Rumors

As Decision on the winner of the MMRCA is coming closer , and India is expected to announce the winner by last last week of this month , there has been buzz of rumors around the countries military circles , we have been hearing some rumors from our sources , but we have to mention that nothing is confirmed and it still can be rumors and nothing more .

Since we are almost close to the big announcement in just two weeks time , we at idrw.org decided to put together all rumors which we have been hearing , so we like to again tell our readers that , this are just rumors and nothing official.

So who won the big contest ?

Well as per rumors , its Eurofighter !!

What happened to Rafale ?

As per Rumors , Rafale are cheaper to operate but spares are worth GOLD

Why Eurofighter ?

Again according to rumors been in circulation , it involved greater TOT and Weapons package was much cheaper compared to French arms package and also EADS willing to make India , Spares Hub for Eurofigther and Partner status .

But there has been another rumor that it will be Rafale , but it has been heard only from one source ,but Eurofigther winning has been heard from multiple source , we have just put together what rumors are been in circulation and we at idrw.org don’t want to contribute to the rumor mill , so we have not mentioned other rumors . and we expect our readers not to take it seriously

Everyone’s is rightly stressing that these are rumors not to be taken very seriously, the EJ-200 winning the Indian contract for example later turned out to be false. Then again, the shortlisting of the MMRCA to the Eurofighter and Rafale was being whispered around a few weeks before it was announced, so who knows.

But all the same, 10 years of speculation and 5 years of arguments later, we may now be two days away from a result. 😎

True… if, as far as fighting a war goes, you want an expensive paperweight on 3 wheels… then the F-35 is fully fit for service.

If you want an effective fighting machine; well, at the minute its not very close.

As opposed to? Doesn’t change that fact that CAC and UAC have less than five prototypes flying, and are nowhere close to bringing an air force variant into production let alone a naval variant.