If it’s not beyond 90 degrees, it’s not really a Cobra…

Not as MiG-29 do it, but it was an early form.

Read Airspacemag Aug-Sept 2006 issue article Raptor Rocks

I am posting some snippets from that article

Shower was joined at Oshkosh that day by Col. Thomas Bergeson, who entertained us with high-speed, excruciatingly loud passes in another Raptor while Shower flew off to collect his airplane for its next stunt. One of them he calls “the helicopter.” The airplane is falling straight down, but rotating in a spin. This is one of Shower’s favorites—the guy must have a stomach made of titanium.

The jet can sustain over 30 degrees per second of yaw, he marvels. “Thirty degrees per second in an F-15? The beeper’s going off and I’m in an uncontrollable spin. But in an F-22, it’s totally controllable, and you’re just going ‘dit da dit da duh,’ ” he hums. “And I’ll push the pedal the other way, and it will just stop and go 30 degrees in the opposite direction.” Shower laughs in gleeful disbelief that an airplane will allow him to have this much fun…..

He’s seen demos and videos of performances by the Russian MiG 29 and Sukhoi Su 35, and admits that their maneuverability is probably on a par with the F-22. “I can do everything they can do and vice versa,” he says. “We can all do some pretty neat stuff. But I love this part of it: That’s all they have. They don’t have the stealth , they don’t have the supercruise, they don’t have the integrated sensors, the avionics. We have an aircraft that does everything a fighter pilot has ever wanted to do. It has it all—you can tell by the price tag,” he says, (about $137 million per copy, or $338 million if you count in all the Air Force’s research costs).!

I do not doubt this. I only say that MiG-29 and SU-27 do that maneuvers absolutely confidently in International Airshows, which F-22 can not duplicate yet.
Of course, it is TVC aircraft and when fine tuned, it is going to do it also.

Firebar,
I do not know where you get your aeronautical background or even your information but you seem to be incorrect.

Let’s start with the F16.

You stated:

The perfect aerodynamics is far more important than Fly-by-wire controls.
Look at F-16. It can not do more that 26 degrees because it aerodynamics do not allow it. Despite Fly-by-wire. This can not help.
Or look at Tornado ADV. The same applies to it.

Whilst you didn’t have much credibility to begin with, do you actually know the reason why it is limited 26 deg AOA (BTW, you can override this during a deep stall condition for recovery).

Unstable, AFT Cg. The FLCS keeps the plane flying level. If it was there it would flip OVER. It has nothing to do with aerodynamic capability of the aircraft.

Doggy, you have to understand that F-16 is service limited to 26 degrees AoA because it was found that at about 30 degrees AoA it has strong propensity to departure from controlled flight. This often end in a flat spin.

This is aerodynamic characteristic of F-16s unstable configuration.
There is no FBW system which can correct this, and allow more AoA.

Regarding Tornado ADV, it is not unstable, but again, FBW controls can not substitute for a bad aerodynamics.

There are no Alpha limits on the Raptors, you only use AOA that you can CONTROL which means the ability to maneuver the plane at these high AOA.

Every fighter has its AoA limit. Do not delude yourself.
That is max AoA from which it is possible to surely recover the aircraft without departure.

The Flanker and even the Fulcrum suffers the same problems at high AOA. They have don’t have that much control in the ‘post stall region’. The MPO switch enabled, low speeds, light weights and changed Cg, give these planes the ability to put their nose up past vertical (90-100 degrees) in less than three seconds. While losing a lot of speed, control authority goes to NIL as you get closer to ZERO airspeed.

They have no problems at all. These are only fighters which have such high controllability at high AoA that they are able to demonstrate Tail slide and Cobra maneuvers before crowd in international airshows regularly.
Remember that american pilots say they are amazed with MiG-29s or SU-27s contlollability at high Alpha.

This maneuver isn’t about aerodynamic qualities of an airframe but the unstability margin.

Do you understand that unstability has a bad influence on high AoA flights.

At 60 Alpha, the F22 has more control authority than the majority of operational fighters. This includes the Flanker, Fulcrum, S Hornet, Hornet, .etc.

It is your wish.
Do you know that Russian fighters do a Super Cobra and Hook maneuvers, again on International Airshows. These are totaly out of the grasp of F-22.

Go watch the video.

I have a video of F-14 doing Cobra maneuver , to about 80 degrees, during tests in 70-es.
But service F-14 can not go beyond 50 degrees.
That is the point.

Can I just make a point on the stupidity of saying something is “limited” in service.
Do you really think a pilot is going to give 2 ****s about the manual when they has an R-77 or similar boring in? Get real!!!
In war, peacetime limits go out the window.

That is the point about high AoA flights. To have a control at very high AoA to evade missiles, hostile aircraft or to bring its weapons to enemy.

That is why the more AoA , the better. It is not airshow stunt only.

But every aircraft has its own limit beyond which it will departure from controlled flight.
For now, the Raptor has 60 degrees limit for service aircraft, if it is not lifted recently. The test pilot maneuvers do not account.
Is there any recent source to prove otherwise ?

Firebar the 60 degrees is very much there , the 60 degrees was for sustained AOA and said nothing for Instantanious AOA .

The 60 degrees sustained AoA is too much for F-22.

I remember that you were claiming 60 degrees max AOA for the raptor about a year back . Go to fencesheck forums and you can communicate with the pilot who performed the RAPTOR COBRA and he likes to take it to about 25 degrees past right angle and hang in there before bringing the nose back . For that particular performance he flew out of langley with a fuel load and 8 A2A missiles , flew subsonic ( airspace limitations) , reached NJ , performed a routine while his wingman did some real neet high speed low alt. flyby’s which were LLLLOOOOUUUDDD according to people there and both flew back to langley . Now if that jet isnt in combat condition then i dont know what else . These are operational jets , in an operational squadron flying operational loads , infact DOZER ( the pilot) says that he prefers this way rather then using a configuration that isnt combat practical. Read dozers remarks posted by myself and Frazier in the various threads related to this news.

May be the limit of 60 degrees is lifted now.
Do you have any source, regarding service aircraft limitation ?

So? The YF-17 did it first, and it did do it in airshows. Next.

I would like to see picture or video. I have info that it could do about 65 degrees on tests.