COMBAT AIRCRAFT magazine, special issue, F-22, page 10:
“The F-22 lacks very high AoA capabilities compared to latest russian fighters. It is officially limited to 60 degrees Alpha.”
so if an F/A-18c can do at least 45 AoA, what makes you think a thrust vectoring F-22 can’t do at least 60AoA?
The F/A-18 can achieve 50 degrees AoA, and it is currently the best in american inventory.
But above that AoA it is prone to very dangerous “Falling leaf” type departure.
The F-22 can achieve 60 degrees, but no more. That is price it had to pay for stealth type aerodynanics. Its fuselage volume is extremely large.
You can not have everything.
Fixed inlets are designed for an optimum speed. F-16 for example it is Mach 1,5.
The F-16 inlet is designed for 0,9 to 1,2 Mach range at high altitudes.
That is its optimum speed range.
It is not optimised below and above that speed range.
That is also it’s vice compared with fighters with variable area inlets.
that is the max it can sustain and nowhere does it say that it cannot do more..
Can anybody present a source which state that it can achieve more than about 60 degrees AoA ?
Regarding Mig-29 versus F-16, NATO air combat simulations reveal that Mig-29 has tremendous advantage.
The German Mig-29 pilots say that combat simulations shaw that within 20 km range they couldn’t be beaten.
And that everyhing thrown against Mig-29 within that range can be considered destroyed.
The main advantages are:
-very high AoA which can be attained by aircraft without departure.
-very high T/W ratio and climb rate (330 m/s).
-very fast point and shot capability (pitch rate).
-engines which keep running at most adverse conditions.
-high off-bore sight missiles (R-73) with high energy rocket engine and
Thrust Vector Control for 12 g targets.
-Helmet mounted sight coupled with radar and IR/laser sensor.
Note also that german Mig-29 has 10% derrated engines thrust and has no R-77 missiles like russian versions.
It is very hard to escape that kind of capability.
Against Mig-29, the only chance is in great numerical superiority with AWACS etc. And to hope that you are not run up against one with R-77 missiles.
The YF-22 achieved 1,58 Mach dry on tests, but with different aerodynamics than in production version.
The production version has altered shape which negatively effects speed.
That is higher aspect ratio and lower wing sweep angle. Also higher wing span.
All that reduces speed.
The production F-22 has Mach 1,4+ max speed on dry power.
With fixed intakes the F/A-22 shuld still be able to exceed Mach 2. Look at the F-16, it has a fixed intake and a max speed of Mach 2.05.
The Theory of jet engines explains that.
The aircraft with fixed intake can barely attain Mach 2, but its engine thrust falls abruptly above about Mach 1,4.
So, its specific exess power is low above that speed. That means acceleration, climb and sustained turn rate are low.
got solid evidence to support your f/a-22 performance claim?
The F-22 is not in the same class as SU-27/30 in close combat.
For close combat, besides high T/W ratio, fighter must have excellent high AoA behaviour, low wing loading and high pitch rate to change flight path quickly.
Max pitch rates (degrees per sec.), and max AoA degrees:
-SU-27: 70, 120
-F-16: 26, 20
Source: Aviaton week and space technology, 14.avg,1989, page 55
The F-22: “Max AoA up to 60 degrees”. -Globalsecurity.org
“The F-22 attained max AoA of 60 degrees and pitch rate greater than 40 degrees per second.”- http://www.defense-i.com (The F-22 pilot perspective).
People, do not fool yourself about F-22 close combat capabilities.
The Lockheed and USAF need money for its production, so, they state various fairey tales about it.
Mary Shafer (I mentioned in another post that she was the head of the Blackbird program at NASA towards the end) said the A-12 reached something like 97,000 feet and Mach 3.6 but not at the same time. Sometime later I saw those same figures in an Airtime Publishing issue of Classic Wings.
She said, so what ? Who can confirm that ?
Anybody can say anything.
The A-12 was restricted to 3,1 Mach because of stability and bad engine inlet spike control. Do not deceive yourself.
The Indian Air Force:
indianairforce.nic.in
option: the strength
“The Mig-25 has 3,2 Mach speed and operational ceiling close to 24000 m”.
People, you do not get something.
The absolute height record is not the same as max sustained height record.
The SR-71 holds max sustained altitude record of about 25,9 Km, but it is not capable to attain absolute height record because of its very bad stability and handling and because its engines can tolerate only streight line flying with almost no angle of attack. !!
The Mig-25 has slightly lower sustained altitude capability but it can attain height of more than 35 km with missiles for short time.
It holds absolute height record with 37650 m without payload and 37080m with 2.000 kg payload.
And it is FAI confirmed.
Before Mig-25, absolute height record was held by Mig-21 (with rocket booster but without Reaction Control System) of 34713 m, attained in 1961.
The Chuck Yeager attempted to break it in 1963, by NF-104, also with rocket booster, but he attained only 33130 m, so he failed to catch it.
That attempt was FAI confirmed, FAI officials were present.
On his second attempt, he lost control, in spite of reaction control system, and he crashed.
Further attempts by NF-104 were stoped. It was out of the NF-104s grasp.
Now, note that Mig-25 attained its records without RCS and without rocket booster.
The best confirmed american max height record without booster is ……
Well that explains why the Mig-29 entered service yet has lost in air to air combat against the F-16 EVERY SINGLE TIME. Numerous REAL kills against the Mig-29 but the Mig-29 has never scored an F-16 kill.
Do not forget that F-16 always had at least 10:1 numerical advantage. Also, it always had on its side AWACS, ECM jamming aircraft, etc, and enemy had not.
In combat against Mig-29, the F-16 pilot has to shot from the distance with AMRAAM and to hope that Mig-29 has no R-77.
Note also that not all F-16s have ability to carry AMRAAM.
On equal terms, the F-16 has no a slightest chance to win. That was evidenced from numerous combat simulations with underrated german Migs.
The Mig-29 killed it to quickly, so that it presented a problem to kill recording team.
The F-16 simply has outdated aerodynamics. It enters a deep stall above 30 degrees AoA, so that it had to be electronicaly restricted to 26 degrees AoA.
The Mig-29 is departure free even at 90 degrees, and that with 6 missiles !!!
80km is actually pretty small when the target is traveling almost as fast as the missile. The missile might be able to cover 80 km but translated into a real world engagement it is much less. If a Blackbird was 80km in front of a Foxbat and flying away from it, the Foxbat pilot wouldn’t even bother to fire the missile. Do the math
Do not be ridiculous. Are you an expert in that field?
The SR-71 also has a problem to evade Mig-25 because it is totaly unmaneuverable and has to change direction very slowly.
Confirmed by who? The FAI? In that case it would be something like 85,000 feet – about 20,000 feet higher than the Foxbat.
No,no, sferrin.
The every record or record attempt has to be confirmed by FAI officials.
Otherwise, it is not regular.
Everybody can say: “I achieved that speed.”
The 85.000 ft of SR-71 is not max altitude. It is sustained altitude.
As for Mig-25 sustained altitude, look at this:
World Air Power Journal, vol.36
“The Bulgarian Foxbats undertake photography flights up to 25 Km altitudes. They were untouchable by NATO defense.”
There are successful SR-71 interceptions by Russian MiG-25/MiG-31 pilots. It’s hard but not impossible. The nicest descriptions of one such encounter was by a Russian pilot of the Northern fleet, in Murmansk area, how he had positioned his MiG below the SR-71 and could see the spyplane above him. He flew some way below the SR-71 for a moment to “finish” the intercept, then returned home.
Of course. The Mig-25 was designed to intercept A-12/ XB-70.
It would never enter service if it could not do it.
But there are some people who do not understand that.
Its AA-6 missiles have 80 km effective range against Blackbird type aircraft, and are very fast, made of nickel steel.
The SR-71 has no chance to escape if happen to be within that range.
Its mission has to be, therefore, very carefuly planned.
Does anybody know what is max confirmed altitude attained by american aircraft, or I have to present it ?