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powerandpassion

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Viewing 15 posts - 421 through 435 (of 1,241 total)
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  • in reply to: Dry Ice blasting historic aeroplane parts #821299
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Fabric shellac wiring and bakelite

    There are limits to the process, in respect of vintage materials that may be brittle, oxidised and fibrous. In this case I tested another electronic piece with bakelite fixtures and older ‘waxed fabric’ -shellac style wiring, which was damaged by the process.

    in reply to: Dry Ice blasting historic aeroplane parts #821322
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Wiring panel

    The next curiosity was a wiring panel. Often these are covered in grease and dust and the fine details obscured under muck. I wondered if aged insulation would be stripped with a ‘brush past’.

    The results were good. On the underlying aluminium panel a poorly adhering matt black paint came away, but the wiring and insulation remained intact. Most usefully, the individual wire grommets with the wire numbering became visible. Clear plastic acrylic labels on the backing sheet were also unaffected. It would be impossible to ‘wash’ such a piece in water or to seriously contemplate using a bast media to clear such a panel by any other method.

    Give the low temperature involved the panel did cool, and subsequently moisture in the air condensed on the piece as a thin film – a ‘live’ panel could not be subjected to this process and any large scale cleaning might require a heater or dehumidifier to assist in managing incidental condensation.

    I am confident that this process could be used to clean vintage electrics with glass valves and ageing electrics with good controls and setup in place.

    in reply to: Dry Ice blasting historic aeroplane parts #821347
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Bakelite and brass

    Bakelite is a remarkable plastic which I am confident will still be around when we are not. However, I wanted to test the paint stripping capabilities of dry ice on a difficult piece, a painted bakelite magneto switch. On this piece the tumblers/switches were brass, with heavy buildup of old enamel paint in the switch mechanism. The use of caustic strippers would affect the brass, but I wondered if close and persistent dry ice blasting would affect the either.

    The full force of the dry ice blast was played over this small piece for a minute, with good results. The paint was removed and the brass and bakelite unaffected. You can collect it now, Howard !

    in reply to: Dry Ice blasting historic aeroplane parts #821406
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Timber and die cast aluminium

    On to the aeroplane parts ! A hydraulic – pneumatic panel from a Mosquito, covered in the dirt and grease of the ages. Could this clean up without destroying the paint or plywood base, aluminium placards, die cast aluminium components ? I gave it a quick brush past, no more than 10 -15 seconds, at a distance, and the results were good.

    Only the loosest paint, which could be picked off with a fingernail, was removed. Die cast aluminium was cleaned up, without ‘matting’. Bakelite was unaffected and an aluminium plaque was cleaned up with losing the inset paint or ‘matting’. The timber was unaffected. If I chose to hold the blast closer or for a long time on the one spot, I am sure the paint and timber would have been affected, but this was a ‘brush past’ to clean off accumulated gunk.

    in reply to: De Havilland decoder part one #821434
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    I have been sitting here in the corner of the pool with my floaties on while you two Tarzans have been performing backflips off the highboard, triple somersaults through propeller arcana and theory, stopping every once in a while to jab a pipe into the others chest to make a point. At some stage you need to stop and turn your gaze to the flabby, useless fat kid in the water and slowly explain some of this material. Dumb it down.

    How does a propeller work ? What were the bright people doing back then to chase more performance ? Chopping blades into bits and re-sticking them together? Twisting blades more ? Can you please do a youtube : get a tub of butter and twist up a butter knife to show how the different ideas worked to move butter !

    Don’t forget a lot of the yankee RHT blades were for air cooled radials, and some of the blade design was for engine cylinder cooling. The Mosquito – Lancaster blade was designed for US RHT radials, then used for the RHT Merlin. I wonder if dH, in chopping and resticking blades, was just getting rid of the ‘unnecessary’ engine cooling function?

    I wonder if any part of the blade was designed to force air into an engine carb intake ? RR and Bristols did so much work on engine fairing. I cannot believe that there was not some kind of correspondence between the fairing designers and the prop designers.

    in reply to: De Havilland decoder part one #825261
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Beermat, a seminal work that I trust will one day result in the book ‘Props and Pints : Home Brewing and Prop Making by Matt Beermat’. It will be a hipster hit. You might need to start wearing a monocle !
    Can you change the thread title to include the word ‘Props’ – thread might be missed by someone doing a search in 2023…
    Can you also dumb it down with a table showing dH number and explanatory term. You need to take me along on the days after I have finished a bottle of red and my brain starts to bake off from too much data. If the topic was a bicycle, I will always need trainer wheels.

    In return I promise to continue chasing lost of dH prop drawings to allow you to run stress tests on your opus.
    Also, I understood that dH only got into props after securing the Hamilton Standard licence agreements in the late 30’s, previously only sniffing the poodle behind of Ratier.
    What, Sir, are you doing chasing wooden props ? Are you saying that dH evolved an internal engineering classification system for wooden props PRIOR to investing into HS?
    (I have found drawings for Wapiti -Jupiter, Bulldog – Jupiter, Demon-Kestrel if that helps)
    Surely you are not talking Jablo type props ? I understand that dH were Duraluminium folk from the outset. Dammit, Sir, what fiendish wood props are you talking about? Did they make timber props for Moths ? I have some drawings of these too.

    For me, the abiding avenue I wish to stride confidently down one day is a translator between an identical HS hydromatic blade and a dH hydromatic blade. I have found a RAAF manual which does this for C47 and Mustang, so hopefully this dataset can help develop this aspect of the topic. I have to believe that dH, as HS licensee, must of had a systematic coding system that somehow matches HS blade numbering. Invariably, you can find HS ‘station’ tables, so maybe this is the ‘HS’ way, while dH went for numbers. They are both the same thing? I think HS used more ink but catered for dummies, which is a bigger and more reliable market. In the long term, building an understanding is, I offer, to support the making of new blades or adaption of other postwar blades to WW2 and other historic applications. Ideally your publication develops into a primer which thoughtful folk can use to guide and manage the selection of blades that allow historic aircraft to stay in the air safely and affordably.

    I do wonder if it is possible to forge a master LH and master RH tractor blank, E shank, D shank, F shank, then machine this to ANY profile, within an ‘envelope of profiles’ that develops from your work. Ideal.
    All strength to your arm, and I raise a frosty glass in salute to you, paddling your canoe into the malarial, jungle depths of this topic.

    in reply to: Dept. of Aircraft Production form BD 45 B #830224
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    It is a great find with both content and style reflecting the immense, ‘modern’ engineering effort that the DAP represented. Much DAP material is now contained at ANAM Moorabbin Archives and the patient process of opening boxes and cataloguing continues. Always welcome, my friend, to open some boxes and discover treasures, catalogue a few bits and pieces along the way.
    The DAP and the Beaufort design, which really brought the DAP into existence and introduced distributed production as intrinsic to the manufacturing idea could really be described as the cradle of modern Australian manufacturing. Another key influence was the BHP, and systems it invented, such as the shadow board, that pushed the young engineers of the DAP to a well sharpened point. Certainly a piece of paper, so dense in administrative and engineering data, would be thrusting farriers and locomotive boilermakers into a new era. I love the red overprint, which I have seen on other DAP documents, utterly ‘space age’ for the 30’s.

    in reply to: A.G.S rivet help and A.P1086 #830327
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Bobby,
    I would love to get a copy of Brown Bros and DH AGS parts info, will send PM

    AGS 972 and AGS 500 from the WW2 period, and a Concession Note from DAP (Australia) relating to substitution of AGS 972 for AGS 500 have been digitized courtesy of ANAM Moorabbin Archives and will be loaded ‘by Christmas’ on the Standards page of silverbiplanes.com From these datasets you can navigate to SBAC equivalents.

    There is also another DAP chart dealing with substitution of AGS screws and fasteners with more commonly understood British Standard equivalents, as well as more British Standard ‘A’ standards from the the late 20’s through to WW2.

    Ed

    in reply to: WT markings on aeroplanes #838567
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    All this has finally brought me to pg 493 Handbook of Aeronautics (2nd edition 1934) where DTD GE125 Issue 4 is reproduced :
    “Every fuselage, plane or hull ( ie each individual covered component) in which the Earth System or bonding has been installed in accordance with this Specification must have the device [W/T] stencilled upon it, the letter WT to be in clear block type 2 in high”

    So this is the official directive establishing that W/T refers to bonding, not wireless. It does not define what W/T stands for.

    RAAF AP 314 1944 Aeronautical Engineering Handbook, under Sect 11, ‘Engineering Symbols’ – Naval, lists W.T. as Wireless Telegraphy, which may be the origin of confusion about what the abbreviation means, particularly for the Fleet Air Arm.

    British Standards Institution No 185 – 1940 ” British Standard Glossary of Aeronautical Terms” does not include a definition of [W/T].

    We may have to be satisfied, until an obscure document is unearthed, with not ever knowing whether [W/T] means Wiring Throughout, but the symbol on aeroplanes can only refer to Bonding.

    In reviewing hundreds of photos of Hawker Hart family biplanes recently digitised, [W/T], where it appears, only ever appears on the starboard side of the fuselage, but on the underside of both port and starboard upper and lower planes.

    in reply to: WT markings on aeroplanes #838646
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Static, or tribo electric charges are quite fascinating, with peculiar things like cat fur generating significant charges when rubbed against nylon. This leads onto a peculiar wondering on the use of rabbit fur in Japanese flying suits, versus sheep fleece in British suits. I wonder which generated greater tribo electric charges ! Maybe Zeros blew up in mid air because of arcing bunny suits ! Maybe the blue green coating on Japanese aircraft structures was superbly balanced to deal with bunny fur, while a modern flight suit might do something else..

    in reply to: WT markings on aeroplanes #838648
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Don, thank you again, great information.
    Picture of Mosquito fin and rudder attached.

    Once you start peering at something intensely little truths shimmer out : the W/T markings are always on starboard of fuselage, never port. Interpreting an historical image that shows no W/T markings can be incorrect if viewed from port. Also W/T markings seemed to be covered over when camouflage is painted over in 1938.

    Looking at Lumsden & Thetford’s ‘On Silver Wings’ reveals Gamecocks with W/T markings in 1928, followed by Bristol Bulldogs and Gauntlets, though the marking shows the letters side by side and enclosed in circles. Hawker Woodcocks are shown with the letters scandalously naked.

    I am now thinking that Wiring Throughout was an adjunct to the introduction of metal aeroplanes for service use in 1928, and metal development prototypes from 1925 onwards.

    All aerospace structures today are W/T, so I guess the need to reinforce this message became unnecessary through WW2, with the last reassuring expression on the wooden Mosquito.

    in reply to: WT markings on aeroplanes #838793
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Don, a wonderfully prompt and precise answer, thank you. AP1107 explains W/T as a marking for bonded structures, but provides no definition of the acronym and the pedant in me was aching for a glossary to define and reinforce it as Wired Through. Google brings up a number of debates on the topic, but the most logical is ‘Wired Throughout’, abbreviated to Wired Through. Moving forward from the 1930’s, there is a picture of a postwar built Australian Mosquito fin and rudder with W/T markings below, (can’t seem to upload tonight)which reinforces the logic of ‘Wired Throughout’, in the sense that you don’t need two adjacent markings to communicate existence of a Wireless, while this Mosquito was equipped with a range of Radio Transmitters and Radar, so the Wireless interpretation is archaic and less logical.

    As a wooden aeroplane, bonding was critical in the Mosquito. I have a copy of Inspectors Notes for ‘Mosquito Electrical Inspection Birkenhead’ that show how a 60 ft lead with spike connected to resistance meter was used to prod various parts to ensure complete bonding. In these notes “the purpose of bonding is to reduce the risk of fire and to increase the efficiency of the radio installation by obtaining a large and constant capacity to the Earth system…all metal parts of the aircraft and equipment must be connected together to form an electrically continuous system of low and invariable resistance.”

    AP1107 in one small paragraph also explained the curious use of fibre crossleads in wire braced 1930’s structures, where the wires cross over each other, to ‘prevent intermittent (electrical) contact due to vibration. Obviously an immense amount of thought, experimentation and testing went into W/T structures, so ‘never the twain should meet’, in terms of an unbonded aileron with a bonded wing.

    Another piece of late 1920’s literature which I recall, which is relevant to today’s composite airliner structures, is lightening strike, because unbonded wooden aircraft were breaking up when struck by lightning in the 1920’s. I understand today that wire gauze is layered into composite airliners to deal with this, and I wonder how much 1930’s W/T structures were developed in response to this.

    Early pictures of Hart biplanes don’t seem to show the W/T symbol, while by 1935 the Hawker Australian Demon is provided with W/T. I figure this was a 1930-35 development. AP1107 is a 1940 reprint, so I wonder if earlier versions of Rigging might put a definitive date on this as an Amendment.

    I can imagine that arcing between metallic parts would be a fine way to ignite petrol fumes.

    Part of this logic also deals with the use of bakelite in throttle box control knobs, highly electrically insulating, because the pilot was a potential electrical pathway, between control column, rudder pedals, ear phones and throttle box…. in New Zealand’s excellent MOTAT Air Collection the Solent Flying Boat has a display board describing one pilot’s experience with St Elmo’s fire traversing from his hands to the engine throttles, no doubt disconcerting. If struck by lightning, perhaps baked apple.

    Thank you , I am pretty certain W/T means Wired Throughout, and I should bloody well ensure it is !

    in reply to: Parts ID help needed. Mossie ?? #839128
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Here’s an Australian T43 co-pilot seat, pan is the same but sub frame a bit different – seat flicks up like old cinema seat to allow pilot access.

    in reply to: Parts ID help needed. Mossie ?? #839154
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    FB,
    The hydraulic part stamped F7 and 983xxx may be Meteor, I have seen the F7 on Meteor parts before and have been tricked by the 983xxx prefix before !

    The seat looks like it has bona fide Mosquito part numbers, eg alpha before 98, S98xxxx, but I can’t place it. At first I thought it was the co-pilot seat on a Mosquito trainer but the frame for this is far less robust. I can’t match S981002 to any vocab of spares. About the only weird thing I can guess at is seat installed in bomb bay for uncomfortable passenger in BOAC Mosquito travelling from Sweden. If such a seat was attached to the forward bulkhead in the bomb bay, with passengers back against the bulkhead, this would make sense. Still a guess though.

    in reply to: Mosquito dataplate & constructor numbers #840106
    powerandpassion
    Participant

    Great pic – NERO DH 600, ‘nero for black’, I wonder what the legalities of selling Vampires to the Rhodesians was and whether this was a ‘Black project’ !

Viewing 15 posts - 421 through 435 (of 1,241 total)