Fedden himself was Bristol ‘Old Family’ certainly if he curbed his relentless energy he could have “fitted in” more easily, but he made it hard. He is one man who refused Churchill’s request to coordinate aircraft production during the war, citing his work at Bristols as being more pressing. So he certainly made it easier for his enemies to push him aside.
Here, for the sake of a contemporary and influential take on the sacking of Sir Roy Fedden, is the editorial from Aircraft Engineering, December 1942 :
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235540[/ATTACH]
Wing tip ID
Here is a Mosquito wingtip which has an individual alpha numeric part number ink stamped on the inboard rib. It is self evident that this ID would disappear as the timber decayed away. In discussing Mosquito IDs with someone who recovered some remnants of British built Mosquitos from Narromine in Australia, significant alpha numeric part numbers were ‘cut in’ with a nail to a thick wipe of black paint on the timber, so obviously nothing would remain after all these years. The fuselage did have a brass plaque, which was affixed to the rearmost bulkhead near the tail. As the aircraft decayed out in the open, the rear would settle to the ground, admitting termites to dissolve the timber. Only an odd outline on the ground would remain, with scattered metal components in their relative positions, and this fuselage plaque near the rear wheel position, starboard side.
So I am coming to a clear understanding that there is no such thing as a distinct Mosquito aircraft ID in the form of a dataplate, beyond the service serial painted on the outside. What is possible to find are some small brass plaques with alpha numeric codes for major sub assemblies, eg AA 123 for wings or fuselage, and AAA 123 for minor assemblies such as undercarriage doors or wing tips and in most cases the cost of these brass plaques on what was originally considered a disposable aircraft has been obviated by the use of internal paint markings instead.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235538[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235539[/ATTACH]
p&p
In your opinion, had it been available in quantity, using Duralumin in the manufacturing process of the Mosquito, would the all round performance of this aircraft been much better than the timber version or, about the same. Setting to one side suspicions about chemical solutions and airframe integrity.
Ahh, you have me ! The Mosquito. The question is like the scientific aphorism of Adam’s navel : If Adam was formed from dust, and did not come from a womb, would he have a navel ? The Ecclesiasticals therefore gave Adam, in image, a fig leaf to cover his belly button, not his modesty, as the question could not be satisfactorily answered. So too this question can never reach a satisfactory conclusion. But we are talking about something more important here than the birth of mankind, the Mosquito, so here goes :
Economically the timber Mosquito WAS better than the Duralumin Mosquito, the Duraquito, let’s call it. I mean in the context of 1940, when metals and metalworking capacity were scarce. Even before it flew it achieved that optimum defined by Von Clauswitz in “On War”, to apply the minimum economic effort for the maximum gain. You cannot argue against turning piano and furniture makers into agents for the delivery of Cookie bombs into the breakfast bowl of Adolf Hitler. I am reminded of the postwar analysis that exposed the Mosquito as the instrument that delivered more munitions into the hide of Nazi Germany at least cost of aircrew than any other weapons platform, so the choice of a timber platform linked to a hot engine design, because it could be built so quickly by an underutilised sector of industry, means that it IS better than the Duraquito.
In respect of the material, the timber ply, monocoque structure was as strong, if not stronger than the Duraquito. As we all know with a cardboard box, the forces it resists are carried in the paper surfaces that are separated by the corrugated centre. Larger corrugations make stronger boxes, separating the planes of stress. You get some corrugated cardboard boxes which are two or three layers thick, which you can park your car on. So the Mosquito had stress bearing birch ply layers separated by a quarter inch of balsa, a remarkably strong materials solution, that carried through to Vampire Jets and is revisited by today’s non aluminium honeycomb structures. Of course the Duraquito could be built to cope with similar stresses, but I go back to point 1, economy in war materials and manufacturing. Of course the Mosquito was designed as an unarmed, reconaissance platform, but was quickly pushed to carry extraordinary weapon combinations. In one recollection of a Navigator in a FB version, the cockpit floor would jump when the FOUR 20mm cannon were in communication mode with Panzers. In this case the modulus of flexibility in a wooden airframe is in demonstration, the whole structure absorbing the kickback, some of course through the chattering knees of the Nav. I do not think that an unarmed, recon Duraquito would have within its original aluminium structure the same ability to take punishment or be adapted to be a weapons platform as widely as the Mosquito, passed from devilish fitter to devilish fitter. I concede that four duralumin beams were installed behind the cannon in the Mosquito to dissipate the recoil force over a larger area of the timber structure, but I think many spanner wielding folk played this game called ‘see how much we can stuff into a Mosquito before it cracks in half,’ and the timber thing proved to be as tough as an old boot. In fact I am surprised that deHavillands DID NOT make a version out of old boots, the Booquito…
We can go on for a long time, but I have no smoke filled, sticky carpet bar in front of me, no half empty bottle of Penfolds Grange in front of me, so the fuel for my mind to generate more nonsense is lacking. I will however touch on the senses, most neglected in these types of discussions. Briefly, the Mosquito smelt good : it would be a pleasure to be in a woodworking shop, perhaps the whiff of pipe smoke in the air, genial conversation with some humble old furniture maker as the Mosquito was whittled into shape. Compare this with cruel light of a Duraquito plant, the incessant rattle of rivet guns and drills, all those women swapping Oxo soup recipes, a cacophony of smashing pots and pans and sisters staring at you with powerful drills. Then of course there is sound : the doped fabric/timber surface of the Mosquito created an extraordinary sound reflecting surface, in particular between the fuselage and the inboard exhaust stacks of the Merlins. This sound was cupped and reflected from the under surface of the huge wings. So first there would be a subsonic projected pressure wave, then the explosion of Merlin sound as the Mosquito flew over you, unpeeling the paper from the Gauloise in your mouth, as you jackbooted up and down the seawall at Normandy. Nothing like the Duraquito, which sounded like a Beech King Air with fouled spark plugs, only good to send as Lend Lease to Russia.
I trust I have been of assistance.;)
Duralumin, a German invention, was the moment when aluminium alloys came of age, the point when the strength to weight ratio of aluminium finally exceeded wood. Zeppelins bombed London in WW1 courtesy of duralumin, and technology transfer became a matter of scraping up crashed Zeppelins and looking at their metallurgy under the microscope. So you start to see aluminium components replacing timber in the aerostructures of the 1920’s, and I can drink 5 pints of larger and run my tongue over a 1930’s British aluminium remnant and proclaim it as Duralumin and be correct, for entertainment purposes for the up and coming generation. Still, it will pay to XRF the thing beforehand, just in case !
Interestingly the metallurgical library comes up with the US standard 2014 as the nearest equivalent alloy, and this is right ! But you can’t get 2014; you can get 2024 in lots of different gauges. But 2024 has more ‘springback’ than 2014, so some of the press shapes achieved out of duralumin in the 1930’s may not be achievable out of 2024…..
Then you need to go to the wise old happy man in the shed*, and he will give you the answer.
Below is the aileron gearbox surround for the Hawker Australian Demon, BS L3, German Zeppelin.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235529[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235530[/ATTACH]
*You must travel far pilgrim, but if you thirst and are resolute, you will find !
Tungum Tales
Another thing I like about XRF are instant answers that allow you to progress your thinking. As a child of cuppa soup and TV remote controls, I really don’t have the patience to wait for weeks to progress an inquiry, it becomes all too hard when there are better things to do like finger piano the iPhone and look on this forum !
So I think a Merlin coolant pipe might be Tungum, a copper alloy, but I don’t know, so I put it back on the shelf until it is picked up 15 years later at my estate sale. Instead, I get an instant PMI that let’s me know it is a simple copper alloy that needs to be manipulated differently to Tungum. I don not need to find a Tungum expert, I can wander down to the old blokes at the minature steam railway workshops and ask them about manipulating copper tube, without troubling them about Tungum. No doubt the old bloke I meet worked at Tungum in 1963, but we can steer the conversation forward rather than conclude we need a PMI first…
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235527[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235528[/ATTACH]
Magnesium
Thank you JG.
But wait ! That’s not all !
One thing XRF can’t do are elements to the ‘left’ of Aluminium, which in aerospace is Magnesium. It will, however, pick up other alloying elements to assist in identification of the Magnesium alloy. Below is an ‘Elektron’ Hawker Demon cast magnesium wheel, and the reading shows no magnesium. Elektron is a trade name and in the early days covered a group of magnesium alloys, so this helps to positively identify the alloy.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235526[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235525[/ATTACH]
One useful thing XRF could do is an instant, non destructive,low cost survey of structural components in an historical airframe to identify magnesium. It may surprise you what is made out of maggy. Because of the square crystal structure of magnesium stress corrosion cracking of 70 year old magnesium is highly likely. Expensive old Grand Prix cars from the 50’s with magnesium suspension components, in the hands of caring owners, get the magnesium replaced after a certain number of hours lest a failure occurs at speed. There is one warbird in the most beautiful country in the world that was forced into a wheels up landing due to failure of a magnesium undercarriage component. Expensive.
I must be getting ‘veteran’ on this forum when I can remember a previous similar post !:p
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?129072-Spade-Grip-Material
Quote :
Have a look here for vulcanite replacement on Leica cameras :
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/vulcanite.html
Lucky for you in the UK, but long waiting list ! I have always wondered about this material.
I have a 1935 BSA spade grip in hand ( Hawker Demon), after reading about the Leica approach I can now see that the spade grip vulcanite portion has been painstakingly covered with 1-2 inch rectangular patches worked around the grip body, seam meeting on the underside. From the Leica story it appears that each strip of Vulcanite was hand worked around the grip body and merged into the next while still hot and ‘plastic’.
A good read, thanks
Thank you
PS Anneorac, have you ever thought of writing an idiot’s guide to propellers? Niche, but it would put so many of us out of our collective airscrew-related miseries.
I will buy a copy !! Great idea. Maybe a website. Happy to contribute funds to get a website going, get a geek to sit next to you so you can download.
I really, really, really want to find a parts catalogue for DH feathering airscrews that matches DH part numbers to the equivalent Hamilton Standard part numbers. Surely such a document must be out there !
Ed
Ed1,
Here is the nav light, the base explains why most of the stolen lights don’t have the base !
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235490[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235491[/ATTACH]
Here are some flare holder dimensions for good measure :
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235492[/ATTACH]
I have recently unearthed
Farnborough Report BA 1621
“Notes on the effect of Nose shape on the characteristics of Frise ailerons 1940
and
Farnborough Report BA 1624
“An analysis of aileron performance 1940” – mainly Hurricane
That’s worth a little photo of some of your magnificent Bulldog work !!
Ed2
Reads like an infomercial for a product.
Is it?
It wasn’t, but what a great idea ! Most of the information distilled out of all this clumsy experimentation and kite flying I will put here : http://www.silverbiplanes.com
Have a look, take a biscuit out of the jar, if you want, and put another different one back.
One day I might print tea towels with DTD specs matched to SAE standards !
I will always welcome constructive criticism : I do want to learn something from it. Give me some facts to take me further along my journey and I will send you a tea towel.:eagerness:
Thank you Eddie
I don’t think it is – Mr. “powerandpassion” is a bona fide enthusiast
As to the subject matter; handheld XRF is useful, but its limits have to be understood –
it won’t get you to a specific grade,I think the pricing is a little off for analytical services, too
cross check the ID with other sources if you’re replacing material.
Thank you Eddie for your back up.
I am just learning about this new tool (for me) and interested in its potential and also downsides.
I agree it will not provide carbon values nor is does it provide an engineering dataset.
I like it as a quick survey tool that, in combination with other immediate datasets like hardness or material knowledge and artifact context can ‘put you in the picture’ and inform subsequent, more detailed (expensive and time consuming analysis).
For basic PMI for new material it’s a great tool.
Much industrial use of XRF for PMI is to check stainless grades in food manufacturing machinery. My XRF trainer, in this application, can now tell from the readout whether the stainless material came from China, Korea, US or Germany, from ‘national signatures’ and even from what mill, via “mill signatures”. Lots of stainless is not what it seems in food and pharma. I do hope, eventually, to be able to know from which mill particular grades of historical aerospace material came from, which I trust will come with exposure to many different samples.
Chips are made from potatoes, but some shops seem to be able to make great chips. There seems to be great variability in aerospace materials too, from what I am starting to understand.
In Australia, getting analyticals done seems to take a long time and cost a lot more than where you are (USA?). Can you provide me with contact details for a good lab or three there, because it makes no cost difference sending a fingernail of material there or here, when I can get fast turnaround and a great price.
Thank you,
Ed
Here is the spindle holding the chain sprocket within the aileron gearbox from a Hawker Australian Demon.
I would assume a modern equivalent would be SAE 4130, but XRF shows 3% Nickel alloy steel, a high strength, highly flexible and fatigue resistant alloy,
The reported analysis matches BS S69, closest SAE equivalent is SAE 2330 – 2340.
BS S69 matches Rolls Royce specification 2063, 3.5% Nickel steel.
SAE 2330 is reported in “Aircraft Materials”, Titterton 1937, as “the standard Nickel steel, possessing good strength and great toughness..used for high grade machined parts such as aircraft bolts,turnbuckle eyes and tie rod terminals”.
Nickel steel was developed in the 1920’s for high stressed automotive applications such as steering columns.
Steels are remarkably varied and there is more than just SAE 4130-4140 out there !
Inconel
Here is a Merlin exhaust stub from a Mosquito.
I have to check my books at home, but no doubt the body is Inconel.
Indeed “Materials of Aircraft Construction”, FT Hill, 6th edit 1946 pg 225 gives the same reported chemical analysis for DTD 328 : Inconel, a “material with permanently bright surface that does not scale at high temperatures. The conditions demanded in a modern exhaust system are not only resistance to heat oxidization, but also to the corrosive action of the chemical compounds from anti knock fuels..continuing to attack the metal during standby periods.”
Inconel is still used to line the exhaust fairing of jets and modern aircraft, so it is feasible to make new stubs, but is not cheap. Still, as scrap, it is worth a bit, so I can always turn the old stub into a pint of larger.:very_drunk:
Demon spindle
Here is the spindle holding the chain sprocket within the aileron gearbox from a Hawker Australian Demon.
I would assume a modern equivalent would be SAE 4130, but XRF shows 3% Nickel alloy steel, a high strength, highly flexible and fatigue resistant alloy, so I need to be careful with this anonymous component buried deeply within the structure of a wing, out of sight. The part is cadmium coated. XRF will only read 10 microns into the surface of the object, so if you do not have the context of the part you can get a “false” reading, if you apply the XRF to the cadmium coated part. In this case I have gone for the exposed threads to find the underlying metal. I am happy to get a cadmium reading, because I will not blast clean this part without some understanding of the toxic cadmium dust hazard.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235423[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]235424[/ATTACH]