As exemplified by the F-35, this “test points” thing is just a PR orientated stunt, pulling out some random numbers for effect and always telling the press how far ahead they are, always (well actually , not really, as shown in the recent OTE report).
Judging other programs by the same PR orientated metric is very uninformed indeed. Did Rafale use this ” test points” thing, or Typhoon , or indeed any other modern combat aircraft? I would be interested to know that actually.
No test points are not a PR stunt. All aircraft use ‘test points’ but the terminology isn’t universal. What may be called test points in one program may be called something else in another nation. For example the PAK-FA will use test points to pass things such as supersonic weapons release, range, speed etc etc.
Here is a link to Typhoon which mentions test points when trialing the aircraft. It was most certainly not a PR stunt.(slow to load but it gets there)
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEgQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.baesystems.com%2Fdownload%2FBAES_063239%2Fair-international&ei=F5X-ULvqA7OX0QXuhIDYDA&usg=AFQjCNETrnD1f39pZIr_vjxVBRr7UtgkBw&bvm=bv.41248874,d.d2k
With only 4 prototypes testing and not much more than 200 hours of the flight testing completed – I would doubt that very much.
I guess it all depends on how thorough the flight testing is. I can’t see it having anywhere near as thorough testing as the F-35 program for example which actually seems quite ludicrous (5000 flight hours already!) to myself but then again I suppose the more thorough the better the end result, in theory of course. Does anybody actually know how many flight hours and test points are planned for the testing of the PAK-FA?
In aviation, as in boxing: a good heavy fighter always beat a good lightweight fighter. 😉
T-50 and F-22 fighter jets it, they replaced the Su-27 and F-15 respectively. 1.42 and C-37 – long-range fighter-interceptors, they had to replace not only the Su-27, Su-33, but also the MiG-31.
1.42 had a stupendous range without external fuel tanks 4500 – 4750 km. Cruise speed of M = 1.78, maximum Mach 2.35.
Its main drawback – high RCS, the rest of it more powerful than any other fighter 1990 – 2010 period.
The fighting analagy is all wrong. I’ve personally witnessed a hulking great 23 stone bouncer knockod out cold in one punch by a guy who i’d say was no more than around 10, possibly 10 and a half stone in weight. As the old saying goes it’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog. For example F-16’s routinely kick F-15 rear end in mock combat. RAF Hawk jets can cause real problems when taking on the bigger jets such as the old Tornado F-3 in mock combat. I’ve seen it written that when a hawk gets in amongst a group of bigger jets it’s like a fox in a chicken coup. In short the size of the platform isn’t the determining factor in air combat, not by a long shot.
Inferior? You came up with it myself? 🙂
These wonderful heroes were good for the USSR, but too expensive for Russia.
Sorry but i’ve no idea what you’re trying to prove by posting a drawing. I can only assume that you’re implying that bigger always equals better which is of course not a true.
Can it get a good enough vector to possible get an efficient intercept in the first place.
Who runs out of juce first, etc etc.
That all depends on the geometry of the intercept. Sometimes you might not have a hope in hell of catching it but other times you will. Much depends on mission planning of the attacking aircraft.
Nonsens.. it was 2002.
What Sens says is in many ways quite correct. The name PAK-FA was not there but Russia started out working on a 5th gen fighter back in the 90’s. Various attempts were made, the Mig-144 an Su-37 for example but both were abandoned due to being vastly inferior to the benchmark 5th gen fighter (the F-22).
Su 34 is capable of M1.8+ and fighters like F35 or F18 won’t be able to even intercept it effectivelly.
On egress it’ be tricky to catch (depending on where the intercept geometry) however when ingressing it cannot go that fast due to having to carry its weaponry externally. I would imagine its limited to around Mach 1 when carrying an A-G load.
Any aircraft carrying a Sniper-XR or Damocles pod has the same thermal imaging technology as F-35 with EODAS.. The only difference is the FOV which is fully spherical with EODAS (AN/AAQ-33 has pitch field +35 to -155 deg with 4° by 4° WFOV or 1° by 1° NFOV).
But the difference in field of view between the two systems in absolutely enourmous. Anyway this is straying OT so I won’t debate podded vs built in sensors.
This statement requires a bit of elaboration, at least to me. How can a part that is invisible from a certain angle affect the RCS value??
I’m not a qualified expert but from listening to various experts i’ve spoken to in the past it woul seem that the radar waves creep along the airplane and then creep back to the radar. From what they’ve told me the rear of the aircraft very much effects the stealthyness of an aircraft when viewed from the front.
And the EODASski stuff is pure conjecture on your part and given that western electronics have ALWAYS been superior to the Soviet/Russian kit then you can be a certain it (EODASski) won’t be a superior system. I notce Russia is not confident enough to show their EODAS in operation too, quite telling that is. And have they even flown their EODAS? If not then it’s nowhere near ready as it’s not the type of kit you can simply test in a lab then bung onto an aircraft and have it work perfectly.
Relax Belethor , it wasn ‘t here on Key 😉
Cheers .
Dammit, it would have been very amusing 🙂
I ‘m not gonna give names , it ‘s not important .
Cheers .
To be fair it is somewhat important when you’ve made an allegation like you have. Besides, what on earth’s wrong with naming names?? It wouln’t be a crime or even an insult.
And lets not forget that the F-35 was to exceed 3000 units in the US alone.
I’ll get my coat on the way out..
Shouln’t you and your buddy be here whining about people picking on poor defenceless aircraft as you’ve done in the PAK-FA thread? 😉
I wouldn’t boast about it – it will not make you too popular in the week that most of the UK’s self-employed (including old Mercurius) have to write a four-figure cheque to Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs (a.k.a. the vampires & blood-suckers).
I’m on ESA, it’s not my fault but the fault of a poorly trained foreign doctor that was employed by the NHS.
Maybe the Russkies will be happy if the back end of the T-50 has a RCS similar to the front end of a clean SH or Rafale. Did you even consider that “those honking great things” look as such because the profile of the aircraft is so low?
Besides, I’m sure the rear-facing AESA & EO-DASSki will put paid to any sneakiness.
The problem is that things aren’t quite so simple when it comes to radar waves. You see because the front end might be ‘stealthy’ you assume any radar waves directed at the jet from the front will not reflect back but that’s not how it works. An unstealthy back end will actually effect the radar return even if the radar that’s viewing the jet is looking at it from head on.
This rear design coupled with the visable compressor face means T-50 is going to show up on radar pretty well. Its certainly not what you’d call a stealth fighter.
And lets be honest here, EODASki will no doubt be a cheap knockoff of the proper EODAS system that was manily added for the ‘me to’ factor when it comes to marketing. The chances of it being equal are non existant.
The issues with lightning have been well known for over a year and a fix is already in the works.
old news
Two years and still no fix? In that case it’s doubtful it’ll ever be fixed.
I just can’t comprehend how a company manages to screw up so badly on quite literally everything! I mean is there anything that actually works as its meant to? Anything at all???