Phil, Jonesy, I still stand by teh fact that a strike formation of the follwing could take down the carrier

4 Mirages, 3 P3s and 6 F7s?

To be fair any package is going to stand a chance if they get the hits and in the right places. How many ASMs can a P3 carry? I assume its more than 2 or even 4 and I expect it would be a lot more. If you can get them into position without being detected or successfully intercepted they would have a good chance causing some serious damage. Are the Mirages carrying ASMs? If so how many? 2 each? Coming from adifferent direction very fast, very low? Well if so you have divided the defender resources and complicated their response.

What should the IN commander do? Go after the P3s who can fire a large amount of ASMs if they get in range, go after the faster moving Mirages assuming these are detected of course, or go after both? Surely the answer is to go after both, there really isn’t a choice. You can’t forego one threat in favour of maximising defensive effect on another. So at this point the question is one of resources. How many defenders do you have? What defensive systems do you have and what layers of defence are available?

Then we come onto the F7s. I know far less about this aircraft than I should. Is it a fighter, fighter/bomber, ASM shooter, escort fighter? What are its weapons, radar, range and payload capabilities. At this point some might say what are the calibre of the pilots but I don’t think the abilities of the PAF crews can be called into question. If I am right in assuming that the F7s are a bona fide escort group then the IN defenders not only have to direct resources onto the attacking P3s and Mirages, they also have to deal with the F7s tasked with defending the strike package. So in truth the IN defenders will have quite a job to deal with but that doesn’t mean the strike package is going to succeed. Personally I’d like a few more assets but hey what commander wouldn’t and also you can’t bring into question the abilities of the Indian Navy, their commanders, aircrews or ratings. If you are asking me the risk to both sides is not worth the bother. Either way it would be a close run thing leading to yet another stalemate.

Don’t get me wrong. Staff colleges in Pakistan and India will be working through these problems on a day to day basis and if they are as professional as I think they are they will be relying on the politicians to make sure they never have to do it for real. If the shooting starts, whatever the outcome it will not be the fault of the troops but rather the fault of the respective governments for failing to maintain the peace.

Does this go some way to revealing my views on the subject? 🙂

I’m sorry to say Phil, but the man’s right…
Of course I don’t see the point of noting this in this thread, but he’s quite right about the Kursk reporting. They always do that when something happens in Russia:
Something good happens: They stay all quiet about it
Something normal happens: They make it sound bad
Something bad happens: They declare it a disaster and start flaming at Russia
Finally, they have started changing a slight bit in the West. Although not much.

Chap I know really I do and possibly more than you think. For example in popular American history it is not only the Soviet Union that was written out of WW2, Britain was as well. I must stress that I mean ‘popular’ history not ‘real’ history because the real American historians are as good as any but the average bloke in the street knows little about WW2 except their own countrys role in it, which it has to be said was just as, if not more important than anybody elses. They know nothing and care less about the Battle of Britain. They think it was a part of some civil war that happened centuries ago or they think they won it for us. They know even less about the Russian front and if you mention the Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, Brazilians, Indians andon andon ad infinitum they will give you a confused and obviously blank expression. So I am right there with you sir, all the way. 🙂

Lots of options at the moment if you want to play online get a copy of Forgotten Battles, the Aces Expansion Pack (AEP) and when you are done download the latest patches. Patches is a bit of an inaccurate name for them they are updates more than patches because quite frankly there is very little wrong with the game. You will need Patch 2.01 and 2.04 to bring it up to the latest incarnation. Bear in mind that Pacific Fighters is already hitting the shelves in some countries (Germany I think) and although it is designed to load into FB/AEP I do not know if it will be inter-compatible after this point. Then of course Battle of Britain will be out next year or the year after. I can’t really advise about which you should get because I suppose with everything that is available now it could get quite expensive.

I just farted again.

Presumably the forward vision when taxying would be vastly improved, since there wasn’t a long nose in front!

In Butcher Bird Ed Shacklady reckoned that the FW190 had restricted forward view. I think he meant it was restricted on either side looking forward of the nose. Shorter nose but fatter in girth what you lose with one you gain with the other. Or is that the other way around? No sorry. Its very interesting but if its looks you are talking about I prefer the Merlin/Griffon effect.

Secondly the RN enjoyed the all-aspect AIM-9L Sidewinder, which was not matched by any weapon in Argetinian service.

The Falklands war was not won or lost because the British had the AIM9L. Every shot was taken from the rear hemisphere of the target aircraft and if you ask any RN or RAF SHAR pilot what they think they would tell you they could have done the same job with the AIM9B. Also don’t forget that the Argentine Air Force had BVR missiles as well. Not that it cost them the war but it was an advantage the British did not have. It matters not one jot who was to blame for what mistakes, a war machine is not effective or otherwise because of one advantage or another. It is down to who is the luckiest, who made the fewest mistakes (by high commanders or the squaddie on the front line) if you cannot bring it all together into one coherent package it is not worth the risk of fighting.

That brings me to the topic of the thread. While this naval/air battle is going on, what is happening on the India/Pakistan border? Events there might make the whole effort redundant anyway. On the other hand they might be contiguous and reliant upon each other. Theres no point in talking tactics if the strategy is all to **** and vice versa. Or in other words, the Pakistan Air Force might be kicking ten shades of sh1t out of the Indian Navy whilst the Indian Army is overrunning Masroor. No event can really be taken in isolation. 🙂

I’m not sure about this but arn’t womens clothes just part of his stage act? I’m sure he said in all seriousness that he only wore seriously outlandish clothes on stage. Off topic I know I was just………erm………curious, ooh err.

Hats off to the bloke, last time I saw him was on stage in the USA somewhere questioning the audience if they knew that other countries other than the USA, Japan and Germany were involved. They had a sense of humour about it, they genuinely laughed which tells me that most Americans do actually know.