Should Finland have a carrier? Should Sweden? Is the German navy a waste of space because it does not have a carrier? Chile must be heart broken that its potent fleet of frigates and submarines is useless without a carrier.

Sorry but I latched on to this bit.

The short answer surely is no, Finland does not need aircraft carriers because they do not operate an ocean going ‘blue water navy’. They operate a coastal navy that generally stays well within the cover of Finland’s land based air power. Same goes for Sweden and to a lesser extent Germany. It has to be agreed that Germany is patrolling further afield these days but they generally have the benefit of allied air cover either from land or from another country’s aircraft carrier. In the case of China? I believe they have plans to build aircraft carriers as they wish to operate a long range blue water navy.

So you are right to a point, you don’t really need an aircraft carrier unless your navy regulary operates far from land and requires organic air cover and I think this is the point Obi Wan was making. I also think he made it quite well and I would like to add that, barring any previous history you two may have, that your attack on him was a little uncalled for. Sorry.

IBTL :diablo:

IBTL? :confused:

Actually in the wider strategic terms Iraq war was definitley worth it for America. It serves their strategic interests to have troop prsence their and despite the denials the oil in Iraq is secure and American companies are already entering into agreements with the Iraqi government.

I am talking pure politics and strategy here and not about the human toll or humanitarian crisis. Furhter down the years GWB will be considerd a visionary and a great President by Americans. The rest of the world may hate him though.

Afghanistan is the first line of defense in the War on Terror. And the price paid there is worth it. I hope more countries join the Americans if the U.K/Nato chickens out.

Are you or have you been a serving soldier sailor or airman? Do you have a son/daughter (husband?) wife serving in theatre and being shot at? If you lost them would you think it was worth the price that you/they have paid?

There are 138 British families counting the cost so far and I dread to think how many families in the US, France, Canada……………….. They are counting the cost and desperately trying convince themselves it was worth their loss and more are to come…………………………

You just don’t sound like the kind of person who really has a vested interest in any of this. Just jingoistic pride.

Americans are tough and non negotiating when it comes to terrorism especially in Afghanistan. While Brits are eager to engage the Taleban in dialogue and solve the issue diplomatically, and very eager to pull out. It has to be noted that the defeatist statements coming from British officers serving in Iraq in BBC and other media do not help the coalition causes either.

British do not want to fight the war in Afghanistan, the Americans do. And i do not think its good to keep people who no longer want to be fighting there.
I like the commitment Bush and now Obama has given to the war in Afghanistan, I am yet to see a positive commitment from British for a long time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7653116.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7747145.stm

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jno_SMCFIaNY3tEp770m2x5HcstQ

Defeatist Brits 😡

And about the Iraq mess. Republicans will have the last laugh as in future the Oil in iraq is going to serve America well. And George W Bush will be hailed as a visionary, years from now.

Any British serviceman/woman will happily serve and fight whomever and wherever they are told to serve and fight, even when they are ‘going through the motions’ they still do a top drawer job. They are professionals and their will to fight remains undiminished. I would however point out that there is a half hearted effort to provide what British forces need by the British government so I for one would appreciate it if people here could limit any anti British sentiment toward the current government. Do that and I’ll happily join in.

I view it as excuse making and finger pointing by the incompetent boobs in the Pentagon for their inability to resolve Afghanistan and Iraq, or even articulate their strategy.

Realize the best and brightest are not at the top in the Pentagon. The competent ones who planned and executed Desert Shield/Storm left the service in disgust at Clinton’s handling of the military. Those remaining were essentially brown-nosing politicos. Bush/Rumsfeld did nothing to reestablish lost competence, which is why the Tora Bora campaign resulted in most of AQ and the Taliban escaping to Pakistan (where they continue the battle today) and Iraq was a mess rife with sectarian atrocities until recently. “Its not my fault” (points finger) is the current game at the Pentagon.

Are you suggesting the Americans are looking for a scapegoat?

Its this sort of cr@p that has stopped me buying AFM dead in my tracks. I used to buy it religiously, every issue since it began, but not anymore. Balls out nationalistic BS and you people just cannot stop yourselves. You’re all as bad as each other. Its not about the aircraft anymore or the true capabilities of them or the forces that use them. Its a ‘my dad is bigger than your dad BS fest’ and its pathetic. You can tell by the posts some of you are even shouting at the screen if anybody dares to impune your ‘aircraft of choice’. What bothers me is that in an effort not to offend anybody or imply some rediculous preference, it is leaking into the magazine.

Our problem is that our political ‘leaders’ have all had their testicals and/or backbones removed. It apears to be a pre-requisite to a political career in the UK these days.