HMS Victory has been mentioned and is a fail allegory. Go buy a model kit of Victory and then tell me about the figurehead. No one knows what Victory’s figurehead looked like, it until it was chainsawed off recently had the figurehead from the old royal yacht “Victoria and Albert”, but mr Airfix et al represent her wearing it at Trafalgar. There is far more lost in reconstruction than just metal. Examples of first line repair, perhaps work arounds or downright bodge ups which may or may not be authorised. Witness marks that may reveal techniques that may otherwise be unrecorded. Who knows what information may be deleted which we don’t even know exists but may become readable 100 years down the line. You could take a brown bess musket and rework it to take a percussion cap and it would be a better tool for it but what does the observer get but a bang? There is a world of difference between an airshow performer and a true historical artefact containing evidence of it’s use in anger in desperate circumstances and the literal and figurative fingerprints of men who served and fought it. To destroy this archeology for the sake of a flypast shows an enthusiasm for the aviation in the title of this forum but a contempt for the “historic”. By this token no unflyable remains are worth recovering.

I had similar concerns when the old RN Wessex SAR went from Lee on Solent where they covered the busiest waterway in the world and handed over to civilian contractors. I am pleased to say that Solent SAR continues to be magnificent.

And let’s not forget that under the circumstances Argentina would have had a quiver full of Exocet and all sorts of covert assistance from the west.

Why ? A slight advantage on paper can be negated by some unspecified means or tactics. It may even never be an advantage at all, for instance if you’re killed before being able to enjoy it.
Pretty useless because, as I said, not everything is explained in plain text on brochures so that the average Joe cannot get a clue. For instance, how many readers take the “50000 ft service ceiling” for an absolute maximum limit that cannot be exceeded ? How many readers consider that “service ceiling” is defined the same in all countries ? What about thrust at altitude and speed when the only data available is a typical figure obtained on a static testbench at sea level ? That’s nearly endless.

Now add a bunch of nationalistic trolls in the mix and that also becomes boring really fast.

I really hope that my post was the complete opposite to a “Nationalistic troll”. By the bye, there are guys like me who just like aircraft and whilst i can tell a spitfire from a hurricane a mile off half the aircraft mentioned here I have to google to even know what is being talked about. A lot of the stuff about radar and missiles goes right over my head and most of the time I read this forum like an informative book written by an author whose experience and knowledge I can only admire. I can see that lots of people pretend to be experts and that needles real experts but some of us are confessed neophytes please don’t forget we are here.

But they don’t exist in single seat variant.

For me the Gripen & SH look great in two seater but not so in single seater.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Gripen_-_RIAT_2010_%285737186379%29.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/FA-18_Hornet_VFA-41.jpg

Love the 2 seater F15 also.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/F-15B_114th_FS_Oregon_ANG_at_Davis-Monthan_AFB_1999.JPEG

Nic

Yes I thought that was just a diversion off topic to side by side two seaters in general. How about the lightning? I personally prefer the look of the two seater. And the Canberra for sure that offset cockpit never looked right but somehow managed to suit the Sea Vixen.

I have to say that whilst comparisons like this are and hopefully will always remain speculative, for me the Rafale is a superb achievement. All this comes somewhat grudgingly from over the channel but good for the French! At the end of WW2 The US and Britain both had huge thriving aircraft industries at the cutting edge of aeronautics and Britain in particular the new revolutionary jet propulsion. The French industry was little more than a satellite production facility for a few German types. From this unequal start the post war renaissance of the French has been astonishing and quite left behind the efforts of my own country. We are comparing here the best efforts of a consortium of nations with the product of one solitary nation with a “screw you” attitude. It’s sort of traditional as an Englishman that I view the French with some suspicion but I really must take my hat off to the neighbors here.

It was a PR stunt LOL – the beer was mostly carried in converted droppers I believe…

I post the quote without comment – one can believe some or most of it : )

I have a dim memory of reading an article describing how the gunports on hurricanes were found to receive beer bottles with a snug enough fit for them to stay put and one RAF unit in the desert had 8 bottles of cold beer every time the standing CAP landed.

Yes, possibly only intended a one-way trip. Making for Ireland maybe? Must admit I was surprised at the distances you give – my poor judgement was adding a considerable number of miles to that! Brings home how close the war was even to the furthest reaches of the UK.

One way trip? More likely he had joined the reciprocal club.