In reality, its improbable that two opposing aircraft will have the exact same levels of stealth, sensor capability, supercruise, TVC, etc. Even a minor superiority in one or more of these areas can be parlayed into a major advantage by employing the appropriate tactics. Its the same old story of capitalizing on one’s strengths/exploiting your enemy’s weaknesses.
I understand this funding for 20 F-22s to be over and above the approved and planned F-22 budgeting as of now…………a sort of USAF “rabbit out of a hat”……..which is the practice they may be adopting over the next several budget cycles.
More F-22s are a good no matter the situation.
Looks like the 20 jets are the first 20 out of the 60 the AF got approval to buy a while back with 20 more budgeted for 2010 and and another batch of 20 for 2011.
It will be interesting to see if anything comes out of the Senators’ demand for the release of the different F-22 studies w/c apparently favor a larger fleet. The Raptor lobby has been quick to capitalize on the recent F-15 misfortune.
The Air Force will ultimately get more Raptors than the 183 currently slated……the USAF wedged-in money for an extra 20 over and above that number this week. More is sure to come as various pols, Dem and Rep, guage their constituents in the affected areas and push for extra funds “here and there.”
I’m not so certain that these are 20 additional units to bring the total force to 203. I was under the impression that this was just funding for another batch within the 183 authorized. Anyway, I hope more Raptors get built but it will take some serious lobbying to get this done and the F-35 news could make this more difficult since it has the potential to be more potent A2A than previously even though it still won’t be as capable as the F-22 in A2A. I also think this news is great for smaller air forces that will be in the market and can’t afford multiple platforms.
Can’t AMRAAM function in SARH mode as well?
This is accident is a rude awakening. Since there’s no way the AF will get all the F-22s it wants, its probably best to fast-track the Golden Eagle upgrade program.
mabie, Its not about spending, the US can spend billions does not means one other country have to spend the same, You need to understand country which first ‘created’ the Crystal Blade technology is the one who would have spent a LOT in the respective R&D, while the countries later following suit need not spent the same amount to get the job done.
Speculations about the generation of stealth vis-a-vis American counterparts aside, In a generalised form “correct me if I’m wrong”
F117 – Aerodynamical stealthiness.
B2 – Propulsion stealth plus the above.
F22 – Stealth in all aspects, mostly six, viz IR, Noise, Contrail, Aerodynamics , Materials etc.HOWEVER, to me YF-23 seemed stealthier than F22, regardlessIt is yet to be seen how the Indo-Russian PAKFA shapes up viz the above, developing unidisciplinary systems is to me not going to be too much challenging rather than integrating and making a all encopassing bird having all these systems working in tandem perfectly, thats definitely is going to be a challenge.
I’m also wondering if Russians are developing any good engines with T/W ratio of over 10:1.
Regarding the bolded part, you have essentially retaliated what you have said before, but I’m sticking with what I said; that generation of stealthiness being first or second vis-a-vis their american counterparts is not going to be determined just because it is Indo-Russian first effort to develope a stealth jet, regarding the catch-up part, well why not; I dont expect the US to sit idle for a decade and half. They have the money, they are leading for now; It will be infact surprising if they does not keeps the lead going.
Joey, I can respect your views though I have to disagree and say that as systems become more and more complex, spending is absolutely key. “No Bucks, No Buck Rogers” as the saying goes. I really hope the PAK-FA materializes, but no doubt the Russians will make mistakes, just like the Yanks did. At least they know stealth aircraft are possible thanks to Lockheed. And who knows what compromises will have to be made in performance/capabilities because of budgetary/time/commercial pressure.. unfortunately they won’t have the same leeway the USAF seems to have had when they designed and built the F-22 with all its bells and whistles and no expenses spared attitude. The crystal blade tech is a good example. Others have been able to copy the technology but how come there’s no real equivalent to a F-119 at present.. where’s the AL-41F that’s been talked about for so many years. that’s just one piece of the whole technological cake that makes up a 5th gen fighter, and right now the US has the recipes in their cookbook and all the ingredients in the cupboard. Imagination, creativity, hard work, are great and the Russians have been able to push legacy tech to its limits but they really have lots of constraints vs western counterparts.
Just because US made its first stealth jet and made it 1st generation stealth, does not in any way signifies or proves that the Indo-Russian PAKFA will resemble the 1st generation stealth just because it is our first effort.
Lets see how the jet shapes.
Vikas regarding R&D dont forget what might cost x times in Russia can well cost 10x times in US (as in normal generalised form), so this money difference behind R&D doesnt matters too much, if it is a healthy sum its well and good. Like adA has asked 2 to 3 billion dollars for MCA if sanctioned, the same project can easily run to 15 billion dollar plus if done in the same way in the US.
Oh, I have no doubt the PAK-FA if and when it materializes will be better than a F-117,, at least I hope so for Russia’s and India’s sakes. I was just alluding to the fact that the US has spent countless $billions in pioneering stealth and have such a big head start. One expert in a TV documentary estimates that the US has spent more on stealth than it did to put a man on the moon. So PAK-FA can fly in maybe a decade or so, it will be a 1st gen product competing against stealth tech that is several generations ahead.. it seems that PAK-FA or other similar stealth platforms are doomed to play catch-up.. no knock on Russian aviation designers.. its just they seem to have a very short stack in a poker game against someone who holds a mountain of chips.. the question is how long can they stay in the game?:D
The PAK-FA is all hype and vaporware for now. Still, its fun speculating ans I’m curious though what you all think might be its stealth and other capabilities wil be considering it will be a 1st generation stealth product?
The curse of the Mummy..:D
A cheap, simple fighter will be aone-trick pony. Think F-16 as it was originally conceived, pure dogfighter not good at much else. Makes sense to spend for more versatile and capable platforms even if they cost more.
[QUOTEAs far as costs go, the first F-22, serial number 4001, cost $28 Billion as it required most of the R&D before it could take flight. Subsequent F-22s can be purchased at $137 Million recurring cost. Government procurement isn’t like commercial procurement where you amortize all costs across the entire production run.[/QUOTE]
If only others could see it this way.:diablo:
My premise is that the rules of the CAS game have changed primarily because of new tech and tight budgetary constraints. The A-10 was a terrific answer to the massive soviet tank armies but even then it was going to pay a very heavy price. Air defenses have gotten even more lethal in the ensuing years hence the upgrades. At the same time, ground forces have more options like those i cited to lessen their reliance on airpower. Maybe if something like the UCAV A-10 wannabe in the following link ever becomes a reality, then we’ll have the best of both worlds.
http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2006/09/battlehog.html
[QUOTE Stand-off does mean that you stay out of the harms way at all.[/QUOTE]
Of course not, just that you have better odds staying in one piece.
Does the G-suit do anything at all to alleviate negative Gs? I guess an inflatatable collar around your neck is self-defeating?:diablo:
Why depend on the human eyeball when you have long-range sensors that can distinguish friend from foe form much farther away and even at night and accurately bring force to bear on target? Maybe loitering over a battlefield is something better suited to UCAVs.