As sure as the sun rises in the east, someone someday will develop a counter to LPI radar.. that’s life.
If it radiates, it dies.
The last thing a wise fighter designer will do is add another emitter. If you radiate, you have become prey. Add ESM, or better yet a staring multispectral imaging array, but never, ever add another device that radiates and gives away your position. How do you think F-22 runs up an impressive string of victories? The harder you look for it by radiating, the easier it is for F-22 to find you and kill you.
Fanboys never learn.
Valid point.
Japan considers the Eurofighter
By Mariko Sanchanta and David Pilling in Tokyo
Published: March 18 2007 22:01 | Last updated: March 18 2007 22:01
Japan’s defence ministry is considering adopting the Eurofighter as its next- generation fighter jet, a potentially momentous move for a country that has until now only purchased fighters from the US, its closest military ally.
A decision could be made within the next six months, people familiar with the negotiations said, and the pro*curement deal could run to tens of billions of dollars as Tokyo is looking to replace 250-300 ageing aeroplanes. “We are looking at the Eurofighter, along with other fighters,” said a *defence ministry spokesman. “We are looking at all available data, not just American data.”
Military analysts say that Japan might be assessing the Eurofighter Typhoon as a ploy to press the US on price and access to highly sensitive technology.
Robert Dujarric, a defence expert at Temple University, said Japan would want the political insurance that went along with US jets. He pointed out that Singapore and South Korea both considered buying European fighters before eventually opting for US technology.
The defence ministry needs to replace its fleet of 90 F-4s, which went into service in 1971, and plan for the eventual retirement of its 200 F-15 fighters.
Industry experts say the Japanese really want to buy state-of-the-art F-22A Raptor stealth fighters, made by Lockheed Martin. But that ambition has been thwarted by the US Congress, which has banned the sale of the radar-evading F-22.
Sugio Takahashi, a re*search fellow at the National Institute for Defense Studies in Japan, said Lockheed Martin had been lobbying the US to allow sales to Tokyo. The US company is keen to expand its market because the US military has ordered fewer than half its expected 500 F-22s, pushing unit costs up sharply.
Mr Takahashi said transferring Eurofighter technology would be less sensitive. In the past, Japanese manufacturers such as Mitsubishi Heavy Industries have built US fighters under licence, but given the advance of technology since, their ability to build F-22s is uncertain.
Thomas Schieffer, US ambassador to Tokyo, said it was natural that Japan should consider alternative technology. “Everybody understands the Europeans have good fighters too, and there’s going to be a debate here about what they need.”
The ambassador said it was difficult, though not impossible, to buy technology from countries other than the US, given the need for interoperability on the battlefield. “You want one set of planes you own to talk to another set of planes you own,” he said. Mr Schieffer hoped Japan would end up buying a combination of US technology, including F-22s, if congressional opposition could be overcome.
Even if the export ban were lifted, F-22s could cost Japan more than $200m (£105m) each, according to military experts. But Mr Takahashi says there would also be economic benefits to buying US fighters as they could share maintenance facilities with jets deployed at US bases in Japan.
Perhaps by 2008, The USAF might consider making an aggressor unit out of Raptors to spice things up for the Blues?
No real benefit training against an enemy capability that doesn’t exist (yet).
Now if only the Rafale and Typhoon join the party…:)
I’m just as keen on seeing how the Flanker does against F-15s and Vipers on the Red Team; kinda funny to think of Flankers going up against simulated Flankers/Fulcrums though.
Meet them and kill them :-):dev2:
It really will depend on the given scenario. Anyway, can anyone tell me who foots the bills (especially fuel) of the guest air forces.. does the USAF pay since its their exercise?
Super Hornet Radar Not Ready For Combat
Mar 12, 2007
By David A. Fulghum
NAS PATUXENT RIVER, Md. – An operational evaluation of the Super Hornet’s new radar says it is “not effective and not suitable for combat operations,” but it praised the design as a “quantum leap” in air-to-air capability.
Navy officials say it will be fine-tuned for war in time for the first operational deployment in 2008.
The analysis was based on tests of older software (tape H-3) last summer. It says the Raytheon-built APG-79 radar “is effective and is suitable for training purposes,” according to Capt. Donald Gaddis, F/A-18E/F program manager. It is in service with the Navy’s first Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar-equipped Super Hornet squadron, VFA-213, based at Naval Air Station (NAS) Oceana, Va.
Senior Navy officials say the radar is using a new software tape (H-4E for E/F model F/A-18s) for flight-testing.
‘More work to do’
Problems identified by the report include aircrew complaints that the air combat maneuvering modes were slow to lock onto targets. It took seconds instead of the split seconds that they wanted. There also were and continue to be problems with built-in tests that verify and detect hardware faults. So far there have been 23 software fixes.
“We have more work to do,” Gaddis says. But, “there are no surprises in the report. The deficiencies that they write about, we knew about at the readiness review in June. In July we were already coding new software to correct those deficiencies. The corrected software has been in flight-test since December 2006.”
The same report contends the radar has demonstrated a “quantum leap against significant tactical air threats,” a reference to classified details about range, resolution, electronic attack options and the ability to positively identify targets – by fusing information from various sensors – at long range.
Gaddis won’t discuss radar ranges. However, a long-time Pentagon radar specialist says the radar resolution is good enough to detect small targets, such as stealthy, subsonic cruise missiles, at ranges great enough to conduct effective attacks against them.
‘Robust-funded road map’
The electronic attack capability of the AESA-equipped Super Hornet also exceeds the range of even the latest AIM-120D AMRAAM design and is estimated by Pentagon specialists at well more than 100 miles. By putting the output of the aircraft’s electronic warfare effects generator through the powerful radar, false targets, altitudes, positions and speeds can be inserted into enemy radar-guided missiles and air defense radars.
“There are some AESA electronic attack [capabilities] already in the radar, and it will be tested this summer when we do our [test and evaluation] for our first deployment,” Gaddis says. “We have a robust, funded road map that’s going to spiral into more electronic attack capability. We’re going to tie it together with our radar warning receiver and ALQ-214 defensive electronic attack system.”
In the wake of the evaluation, Gaddis alluded to fifth generation capabilities for the AESA-equipped F/A-18Fs. Such claims raise the hackles of F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter program officials.
“There is no tactical fighter flying that is more effective in both air-to-air and air-to-ground [missions] as a Block II Hornet with AESA,” Gaddis says. “It is the finest radar bomber in the world today. That goes for little platforms and big platforms” – a reference to the B-1 and B-2. The F-22 program has not yet completed its development of air-to-ground capabilities.
Critics of Gaddis’ claim contend that cobbling together some pieces of the capability won’t result in a fifth generation aircraft like the F-22 or F-35.:dev2: “The whole point to fifth generation is the synergy of stealth, fusion and complete situational awareness,” says a veteran Air Force fighter pilot. The point about fifth generation aircraft is that they can do their mission anywhere – even in sophisticated integrated air defense [IADS] environments. If you fly into heavy IADS with a great radar and sensor fusion, but no stealth, you will have complete situational awareness of the guy that kills you.”:diablo: :dev2:
More work to do on APG-79
Super Hornet Radar Not Ready For Combat
Mar 12, 2007
By David A. Fulghum
NAS PATUXENT RIVER, Md. – An operational evaluation of the Super Hornet’s new radar says it is “not effective and not suitable for combat operations,” but it praised the design as a “quantum leap” in air-to-air capability.
Navy officials say it will be fine-tuned for war in time for the first operational deployment in 2008.
The analysis was based on tests of older software (tape H-3) last summer. It says the Raytheon-built APG-79 radar “is effective and is suitable for training purposes,” according to Capt. Donald Gaddis, F/A-18E/F program manager. It is in service with the Navy’s first Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar-equipped Super Hornet squadron, VFA-213, based at Naval Air Station (NAS) Oceana, Va.
Senior Navy officials say the radar is using a new software tape (H-4E for E/F model F/A-18s) for flight-testing.
‘More work to do’
Problems identified by the report include aircrew complaints that the air combat maneuvering modes were slow to lock onto targets. It took seconds instead of the split seconds that they wanted. There also were and continue to be problems with built-in tests that verify and detect hardware faults. So far there have been 23 software fixes.
“We have more work to do,” Gaddis says. But, “there are no surprises in the report. The deficiencies that they write about, we knew about at the readiness review in June. In July we were already coding new software to correct those deficiencies. The corrected software has been in flight-test since December 2006.”
The same report contends the radar has demonstrated a “quantum leap against significant tactical air threats,” a reference to classified details about range, resolution, electronic attack options and the ability to positively identify targets – by fusing information from various sensors – at long range.
Gaddis won’t discuss radar ranges. However, a long-time Pentagon radar specialist says the radar resolution is good enough to detect small targets, such as stealthy, subsonic cruise missiles, at ranges great enough to conduct effective attacks against them.
‘Robust-funded road map’
The electronic attack capability of the AESA-equipped Super Hornet also exceeds the range of even the latest AIM-120D AMRAAM design and is estimated by Pentagon specialists at well more than 100 miles. By putting the output of the aircraft’s electronic warfare effects generator through the powerful radar, false targets, altitudes, positions and speeds can be inserted into enemy radar-guided missiles and air defense radars.
“There are some AESA electronic attack [capabilities] already in the radar, and it will be tested this summer when we do our [test and evaluation] for our first deployment,” Gaddis says. “We have a robust, funded road map that’s going to spiral into more electronic attack capability. We’re going to tie it together with our radar warning receiver and ALQ-214 defensive electronic attack system.”
In the wake of the evaluation, Gaddis alluded to fifth generation capabilities for the AESA-equipped F/A-18Fs. Such claims raise the hackles of F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter program officials.
“There is no tactical fighter flying that is more effective in both air-to-air and air-to-ground [missions] as a Block II Hornet with AESA,” Gaddis says. “It is the finest radar bomber in the world today. That goes for little platforms and big platforms” – a reference to the B-1 and B-2. The F-22 program has not yet completed its development of air-to-ground capabilities.
Critics of Gaddis’ claim contend that cobbling together some pieces of the capability won’t result in a fifth generation aircraft like the F-22 or F-35. “The whole point to fifth generation is the synergy of stealth, fusion and complete situational awareness,” says a veteran Air Force fighter pilot. The point about fifth generation aircraft is that they can do their mission anywhere – even in sophisticated integrated air defense [IADS] environments. If you fly into heavy IADS with a great radar and sensor fusion, but no stealth, you will have complete situational awareness of the guy that kills you.”
Too bad. I was looking forward to having Flankers in the neighborhood to play with.
I have a feeling the USAF would go the F-22 path if the F-35 program fell over … even if it meant a big cut back in numbers.
However there might be an export market for this aircraft if the F-35 program was delayed or curtailed.
The AF originally wanted more F-22s so badly it was willing to reduce its F-35 order to buy more Raptors. However the thinking seems to have changed a bit and now the AF wants all the F-35s it can get to replace all the F-16s, etc. that will have to be retired in the coming year. ACC Commander Gen. Keys has gone on record as saying he doesn’t favor giving up Lightnings in favor of the Raptor as long as the F-35 continues to meet its development benchmarks.
Great too, I am pomped up for this, The Raptor is there, The SU-35 is there, The MiG-35 is there, let them all show their mettle. We want it sooner than later at Farnborough and the Paris airshows.folks.
Frankly, I don’t see fancy airshow maneuvers as proof of anything. Nice to watch though.
So we’ll obviously see several Raptors at the Australian International Air Show at the end of the month then? :p
I suspect that Raptor demos will be limited to US audiences for the foreseeable future. Now if LMA got permission to sell the plane abroad, that would be a different matter. Heres a link to a similar article but with illustrations.
https://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/2007/03/05/0304sbizraptor.html
It just goes to show how even a rare lapse in situational awareness can cost you dearly. I bet there were some red faces on the Blue Team but that’s what exercises are for and I’m confident some lessons have been learned. Like they say, if some people complain that the cost of training is high, wait until you pay the price for ignorance.
Most of that electronic attack stuff is going to remain classified so we can expect a lot of speculation on what is really possible. If indeed an AESA-equipped fighter could down an opponent by frying his avionics, it can’t be as satisfying to a macho fighter jock to get a “digital kill” as compared to a kill by 1) gun 2)sidewinder 3)amraam. 😀 😀
I recall reading similar reports to what you narrated about early exercises pitting the Raptor vs multiple Eagles. When it became apparent that latter had a difficult time detecting the F-22, the Raptor pilot would actually tell them his location so they could try to acquire him on their radar but still they failed. They only located the F-22 visually as it was about to fly over their canopies. I can only wonder what must be going thru the minds of potential foes who may have to go up for real against this monster one day..