In an ideal world, an independant Scottish government would love not to have to spend a fortune on Defence.

But the world is not ideal, so things like fast jets and Ocean going warship are required.

Sure if it wasn’t a case of taking some of the typhoons that the Scottish taxpayer has already contributed to the cost of, then something like Gripen or even Rafale might be better choices but as is pointed out these would require a cash purchase not a negotiated settlement.

Cherry Ripe: you really should indulge in Stand up comedy, Russian Bears overflying Scotland whilst the rUK airforce fly a high CAP between Whitehaven and Alnwick not able to cross the border, is superb. Keep the humour going so we know not to take you seriously.

MPA can’t come quickly enough and that’s whether by a “No and a UK purchase” or “Yes with SDF and rUK purchases” (possibly together for interoperability, joint maintenance facility, and if similarly Spec’d bulk order cost effectiveness).

SAR is pretty much tied up for the moment with the new Helicopter Deals, I don’t think that a Scottish government will want to tear that up, but would naturally have to contribute to its costs with crossborder operability. By the end of the divorce period the rUK and Scottish Governments would be starting to review the next contracts anyway, whether again joint or separate.

I’m not sure I follow your analogy of ‘divorce credits’?

Just because Scotland ‘owns’ 8.4% of every ‘asset’ of the United Kingdom does not somehow magically provide an extra 8.4% equivalent in money to duplicate that part of the asset that does not exist in Scotland. These are only ‘assets’ in the sense of the essential service they provide, not in the sense that they have any sale value; there is no cash in the system.

Let us take the example of the DVLA. In your analogy Scotland could trade an equivalent value of (I don’t know) Forestry Commission land for the 8.4% of the DVLA that Scotland ‘owns’; fine, but where does the cash come from to build the Scottish DVLA?

As for Trident, Scotland doesn’t want Trident, so I’m not so sure that Scotland should be able to claim any ‘credit’ for trading it. Trident was a democratic decision of the United Kingdom government; if Scotland wants to cherry-pick what Scotland doesn’t want post-independence then that is fine but why should the rest of the United Kingdom pay a credit for it, so to speak? Also Scotland will hardly wish to credit the Rest of the United Kingdom for the Trident facilities that will be abandoned in Scotland.

Can Scotland be successfully divorced from the United Kingdom? Yes, of course, but I don’t think the costs to both parties should be underestimated. And these will be real costs, real costs running into billions of pounds, and they will be real costs that will need to be met very quickly (by borrowing money) at a time when government borrowing, especially for a newly-independent Scotland, could be very expensive.

The whole point of my using divorce credits rather than using Money is because it’s very difficult to place a financial value on somethings. At no point have I suggested that there will be blank cheques being handed around.

The negotiations that would take place if Yes, would involve a re-distribution of those assets. Whether that be a second copy of the master programme that the DVLA runs, but then loaded up with Scotland only data. The DVLA is perhaps not the best of examples, I only used it due to the Original Posters reference to it.

I genuinely believe that many of the physical assets of government will offset each other. The real assets to be transferred will be the knowledge and in many cases the computer programmes, used by different departments. Scotland already has civil servants who currently work for UK wide UK Government departments, some of those may end up doing exactly the same thing for the New Scottish Government department, others may find themselves moving to other areas.

Getting on to Trident, and this is a military forum afterall. Scottish tax payers contributed 8.4% of the cost of those 4 subs, the missiles, the specialist handling kit etc. it doesn’t want 8.4% of that. But their value in divorce credits would go along way. Even if it “costs” Scotland bartering back 2 or even 3% (Random numbers) as a contribution to re-location costs else where in the rUK. The facilities wont be abandoned many specialist bit of kit were designed to be taken down and re-located, and these would go with the Subs. Faslane itself will become the Joint HQ the Scottish Defence Force, as well as becoming the main operating base for the ScotDF’s naval arm.

The best outcome for Scotland may well be Yes… but Yes may not be the best outcome for rUK. Only a Yes and someone reading History 100 years from now would be in the best position to judge the answer to that.

I object to the idea that Yes is the emotional vote and No is based on intellect.
I’m an educated person who intends to vote Yes. That choice is base on intellect as well as emotion.

I know that Both sides have been blowing smoke regarding costs, Oil & Gas etc. But what I can see and understand is that whilst the current UK government is telling Scotland that the Oil and Gas wont last long and actually won’t amount to much financially.
Yet during the concessions now being offered by the No campaign of new Scottish power on tax etc, the UK government isn’t letting go of the Oil and Gas Money. Could it be because they know that actually there is more than enough to allow an Independant Scotland what it plans to do ??

Everyone is entitled to their belief, In my view, Scotland can’t do any worse than what my (and previous) generations have had to live with under Westminster rule.

If an independent Scotland falls on it’s Backside then at least it’s at our own hand.

I can’t believe some of what’s been written in this thread.

Has anyone on here actually read the anything about the Scottish Governments proposals because it doesn’t sound like it?

[URL=”http://scotreferendum.com/reports/scotlands-future-your-guide-to-an-ind…]

It clearly points out that if there is a Yes, then a divorce period would begin during which Scotland would have to begin the process of creating Scottish Government departments and Organisations for things that are currently administered UK wide. This would include things like work & Pensions, Defence; organisations such as a Scottish DVLA, Passport services.

I’m not an SNP member by any means and don’t agree with everything that the Yes campaign plan to do. I’m simply pointing out what has been proposed that clearly hasn’t been heard very clearly outside of Scotland.

Regarding Assets, if it’s an agreed figure of 8.4 % of all tax raised in the UK comes from Scotland, then the argument is that 8.4% of any piece or equipment that the UK Government owns in the UK is Scottish.

Discussing this with fiends I’ve referred to divorce credits, a government purchased box of 100 pens might be worth 0.1 divorce credits, a Trident submarine might be worth 10 billion divorce credits with everything else valued in between. The SNP are clear that it doesn’t want Trident so could 4 x 10 billion x 8.4% = Scotlands share of Trident in Divorce credits.

Using the DVLA as an example,, It might cost more than 8.4% of whatever value is put against the DVLA, equipment and it’s systems, for the Scottish government to set up an equivalent, so could use some of those credits to either “buy a copy” of the DVLA system to run in Scotland, or fund the setting up of a whole new system.

UK government owned land or Buildings in Scotland will have divorce credits valued against them as well no doubt, so much of those credits will offset against land and buildings in the rUK, that we probably won’t hear mention f then in any negotiations.

It’s the tiny details of negotiation that will really take time and effort to come up with something that works for everyone…remember there are UK government Departments that have offices in Scotland that carry out UK wide work, that would have to be re-arranged so it’s not just Scotland having to set up new agencies, the rUK would have to re-organise it’s workload as well.

One thing is for very certain… There is no such thing as the Status Quo regarding the UK.

The fact that a referendum is happening and that it appears to be as close as it is… the UK (if it remains) will never be the same again.

The OPVs could be the first new build ships of the Scottish Defence Force if the people say “aye” in a few weeks time. :dev2:

Have seen where they had tied QE up on the Western wall of the docks the other day, I ventured along with my camera this morning.

There is a C47 scheduled to rest at Prestwick for a day or two next week, on route to Duxford.

http://www.rtn2014.org

Edit to add links, and add it can be followed on flightradar24

http://www.flightradar24.com/N345AB/