Stopped at Duxford this morning to check where our pitch was.
Told the contact that I ( and you all) were getting frustrated about not seeing a list.
They said that 50 aircraft had been confirmed and they were trying to reach 60.
Secondly that some special veterans were flying from US to be there.
they will tell marketing about the concerns and try and get a current list asap.
Data plate
Okay the data plate says it is a T33A – 1LO
It says the aircraft ID is 9111.
Searching on the internet shows two references
1. A picture from May 1959 that shows the 9111 T33A as BD796
2. A list of registrations that says that T33A 9111 was sold to the German AF and then some possibly to Turkey (?) – quote”
53-5769/5772 Lockheed T-33A-1-LO
c/n 580-9108/9111
5772 to German AF as AB-796, BD-796, EA-394, JA-397. To Turkey in 1968″
So options are:
1. It was either sold to Belgium from Germany ( or Turkey ???)
2. The data plate is from another T33 that just happens to have been scrapped at same time
3. The earlier information was misleading.
Dont want to be pedantic – just interested in what the history is.
Any suggestions.
data plate
There was a suggestion that these were Belgian T33’s – the data plate from one of them has it as T33A 9111 – which I have found to be a 1953 manufactured aircraft sold to the German air force and flown as BD 796.
When the paint was removed from the fornt of cockpit panel of aircraft No2 ( above ) there is the top of the letter 6 – as is expected for BD976.
Picture of her in better days is on air britain:
In my day-job I am an industrial chemist.
There are two ways of removing things – partition or dissolution.
The easiest is dissolving it –
The key thing in dissolution to remember is like dissolves like.
Water will only dissolve polar items (e.g. salt and sugar).
White Spirit/Turps dissolve very unpolar things e.g. tar, wax
Meths – Methylated alcohol – will dissolve at the middle to polar end.
Std paint thinners is acetone/toluene – good across the board as it is a mixture of a polar and a non polar solvent.
Acetone is also sold as nail varnish remover.
Perspex is polyacrylonitrile – a poly cyano compound.
Polycarbonate is stronger but very solvent susceptible.
Both are relatively polar – but also crystalline.
Dont use acetone on either as it will irreversibly damage them.
I would suggest that most sealants (except silicones) are likely to be complex cross linked polymers that are designed for high and low temperatures but will be closer to the non polar end than polar.
The problem is that without access to a chemical lab – most other solvents are not open access…
The alternatives are IPA and ethanol (booze).
As suggested the best option is to let it soak -so that if it is not fully dissolves – it may at first swell it – which will allow you to mechanically remove it.
If suggesting to use water/soap – you are using the partition process – where you are trying to get a little bit to be suspended in the soap in the water – a long process. This is what happens in a washing machine and in the sink.
As a cockpitfest virgin – can you elucidate what is actually on offer?
Is it dials, gauges, wires and miscellaneous insidey cockpit bits or are there exterior panels, fuselage panels etc.
I have been experimenting with painting on surplus and dented fuselage parts from Vampires, Venom, T33’s, Viscount, Missile fins, T33’s etc. so may be tempted to come down if such fare was on the table.
Lovely Pete – can I have one please?
Makes my classic cars 1275 cc A series engine look a little underpowered.
T33’s in a bit of a mess now
I was at the yard on Monday – the two aircraft are still there – but now piled on top of each other and all mangled up nicely.
Precariously balanced and mixed up with washing machines and general debris when they have been lifted together to save space.
No chance of any rescue of any useable parts now.
I liberated a couple of pieces of fuselage skin that were lying on the ground and paid scrap Al money for them.
Myself, the wife and the hooligans will be attending.
It was a last minute decision – but as Genghis the eldest hooligan has an interest in reenacting – it seemed it may be worth while.
I think we have been given a spot in the main hangar.
Just hope the weather gods will be appeased.
Colour Measurement
As there seems to be a lot of debate and personal interpretation – why not call in the experts – there are two Universities in the UK with colour laboratories. I got my degree and Ph.D. in colour chemistry from one of them!
All you need to do is get the senior lecturer interested – then propose a work program.
Taking the original documents/colour charts – measure the CIE 1976 LAB colour space. Also measure the reflectivity as a measure of smooth (gloss) and matt..
Then formulate some further paint samples with the original recipes – there will be a handful of white pigments current at that time – then again measure the CIE colour space.
Then you could also Xenon age the newly formulated chips – which will then show you the comparison with the original data.
All in all should take no more than a week or two of work for an undergrad or a placement student. Probably less time than than it has taken to discuss.
Result will be a definitive colour space along with data on ageing and formulation.
If you cant talk to the University – you can talk with a paint company such as International or Crown….
My 1959 Frogeye Sprite was made at Abingdon and has AN5 as its code…
The A – A series engine
N – 2 seater
5 – AH Sprite mk1.
The AN4 related to the MG Midget mk2.
So no correlation there…
The colour codes for the std wartime camouflage are all BS381C – just google BS381 Dark Green or Dark Earth and you will get the codes.
You can get solvent borne cellulose mixed at your local body shop supplier. Alternatively you can buy some types direct from LAS aerospace. As mentioned before solvent borne are being phased out in EU and water borne coming in – you can still gets solvent borne but prices are rising.
The alternative codes are RAL – ( R standing for Reich) – which are the german standards that are now more commonly used. There is some cary over from BS381 and you can online search for comparisons.
The bomb count/mission tally was for the aircraft – not the crew!
Just look through the Ton-Up-Lancs and see the number of crew changes – but the mission tally continued to rise…
In my day job I work for a company in nearby Alsace and there are a couple of interlopers from Lorraine working there- so if you have any questions on French I may be able to assist.
If you search on AbeBooks.co.uk you will find someone listing “in Enemy Hands” at 10 GBP.
very useful site for old books as it links many used booksellers.
I have also found that if you contact the seller direct – as they have to pay a commission to AbeBooks – they sometimes sell direct to you at slightly lower price.
The primer used to be chromate based (green/yellow) – but as the chromate is not so human friendly when sprayed it has been superceded by modern primers.
For cockpit grey green – either go to the local paint shop and get some mixed quickly – as the solvent borne paints are being phased out! The solvent borne cellulose paints have doubled in price since last year!
Or you can purchase 1 litre tins of the correct cockpit grey green as well as the chromate from LAS Aeropsace.
We use it for painting the inside of our panels..
We use three techniques for cutting aluminium sheet :
For production panels – I use laser cutting.
For prototypes and specialist panels –
I used to use a jigsaw with special aluminium blades – but then had to spend a couple of hours with a deburring tool on each panel.
I now use a small plasma cutter – Hypertherm – beautiful cut – flexible and versatile.
I dont know if you can get from Edinburgh to Cumbria where I can assist…