Good shout and another to add to the mix…. it does exhibit very similar traits including my , probably overcooked, observations re tailwheel and pitot etc.
I did look at several pictures of the Hawk during one of my searches on Googe but just couldn’t align the outer wing Dihedral compared to the centre section. Admittedly i didnt spend hours looking and would love to see a picture of the Hawk that clearly shows that , apparent, change in Dihedral. For me our mystery ship just seems to sit different and looks a lot ‘meatier’, if thats the word.
Still given the current state of play its a good add to the possibilities and possible derivitives.
Edit.. Another thing , and it may be the picture, but the wheel track on our aircraft just seems a lot wider than anything else I have seen.
Bearoutwest… the pictures I have seen , albeit online, have shown the 5D to be fixed gear.(EDIT: having looked further you are correct I believe) Like you I alluded to the japanese link in my post #146.
I have been to all 4 corners of the world with this one.. My first thoughts are US manufacture but the very good and thoughtful comments pointed me to the far east possibly.
I am,like most of us , pretty sure its not a published aeroplane unless it has been heavily modified. My first post mentioned the tailwheel and that still draws my attention everytime I look at the picture. It screams Lockheed to me but the rest of the aeroplane screams something else… heck I am even seeing a P47 in it now !!!(I am not suugesting any link to a P47 … just something about how it sits and its round shape)
if it is a development aeroplane , say something that started as a test bed based on , say , a Gamma how has it ended up in what appears to be a civilian scheme.
I am strugglng with all reasons and wondering if we are all missing something obvious but if we are I can’t see it.
Apart from the tailwheel the other thing for me is the pitot. Again it points to the Gamma in shape and position.
Our mystery aircraft also seems to sit very high at the front and the gear seems like it rakes forward a bit compared to the early Gamma pictures I have seen.. I am trying to visulise dropping a plumb line down from the leading edge but given all the different angles of comparison aeropanes from the net its difficult.
The picture quality doesnt help and so its difficult to assertain fairing and cowl lines… it is difficult to assertain the lines of the aircraft …. Personaly i do not believe I can see the Stbd Elevator.
I also alluded to , along with other posters, that the writing on the side does have a hint of japanese about it . I do belive if we could determine this or the underwing lettering it would be a big step forward but it looks like it was applied by a 5 year old with a brush.
I understand the frustrations but this has been a fascinating , well reasoned and very enjoyable thread to follow . We all have our thoughts and all these different opinons add to the mix and I truly hope we can reach a conclusion without spilling blood:)
It is fairly well documented that a whole bunch of Gammas were sent to China where they were assembled and flown in the 2nd Sino-Japanese conflict. So quite feasable our aircraft came out of one of these but why one would experiment during a conflict and produce a some kind of hybrid I am unsure. It could have been done after the conflict but,again, why when more advanced aircraft were available.
Of more interest to me is the fact that the Japanese used a Gamma5 to develop the Kate Torpedo Bomber…. i quote:
“With no ATC, export certificate, or bill of sale record, the aircraft was exported September 1936 to Japan. The customer was the Japanese Navy, and coded the aircraft BXN2. After Japanese Navy flight testing, the aircraft was handed over to the Nakajima Aircraft Manufacturing Company at Koizumi, Japan, for study by engineers. It is said that the aircraft was “very helpful” in the design and construction of aircraft which led to the Type 97 carrier-based attack bomber, or Nakajima Kate. The aircraft was passed on to Manchurian Air Lines, whose photographic division used it for aerial reconnaissance, both over China and above USSR territory through 1939.”
So maybe , and its pure speculation, this aircraft is one of the results of said design and construction. Imagine the factory taking the Gamma , building a few aircraft with each one having different design features/improvements and then concluding with the type 97 prototype …. i havent particlary researched this so feel free to blow me out of the water if i am way off.
Thank you Beermat… bit of a blonde moment for me as I have seen the KI 15 images online!
Ref Graham Boaks post 115 and as I alluded to earlier the tailwheel is a bit of an issue for me… Even if you *******ised a fuselage onto another wing why would you move a tailwheel position. Another thing of interest is the Pitot tube . The only one I have seen similar is on the Gamma 5’s yet my ‘tailwheel’ theory doesnt stack up as it still looks far to forward and is similar to Lockheed models of the time…. Gamma 5s did end up in Spain and Japan though !
Like previous Posters have said, and something i pondered early on, the lettering is maybe another clue. The lettering on the side does have a hint of the far east even though very blurred yet there under the wing is clearly western lettering.
As previously mentioned I am no expert but would this aircraft exhibit a western style registration, if that is what it is, under the wing if it was operated , or indeed modified in Japan from a western aircraft.
Intriguing thread and very enjoyable to follow.
Edit: Ok ..now seen some pics of Gamma 2’s with the same pitot … So my only conclusion is that the pitot tube may have come from a Gamma !!
Fascinating Thread and very well discussed and reasoned so i doff my cap to you all.
I do not profess to be any kind of expert but experience shows that aircraft designers/design offices often had their quirks.
I am looking at the tailwheel .. It looks ‘spindly’ and positioned in a very forward position relative to the fin post/back of aircraft.
Take a look at early Lockheeds i.e Sirius,Orion,Altair,Explorer ec and note the simililar tail wheels . Now look at ,say, Northrops i.e Delta, Gamma, Alpha Etc and note the tailwheels…
I may be totally barking up the wrong tree but, if we are heading down the American route our mystery plane is leaning towards the Lockheed if I am reading the picture correctly.
Cheers
no idea why pics are upside down !!!
Spitfire on a low loader heading South on the M40 – 28.6.16. Any ideas which it was and where it was headed to/from?
Thanks in advance,
Rich
Hi Rich
Replica Spitfire from RR heritage centre to Goodwood if its this one you saw :)[ATTACH=CONFIG]246734[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]246735[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]242262[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]242263[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]242264[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]242265[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]242266[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]242257[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]242258[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]242259[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]242260[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]242261[/ATTACH]
Thank you Der… a few more to follow …
FabricFan………..
I feel sure a wider audience maybe interested………!!
Hi Planemike
I am sure you are right and will endeavour to post a few more pictures…I find it hard to guage the interest out there and don’t want to be seen as ‘self publicizing’ 🙂
Hi Jagan
Thanks for your interest and words…
Please PM me your email address and i would be happy to share a bit more info and send some more pictures.
cheers
Anyone involved in servicing flight etc will have experience. There’s no way they will let idiots work on her.
I hope that comment was not aimed at me , if so perhaps you can qaulify it. All I did was offer help with any aspect and that includes my experience keeping Daks airworthy too.
HI Thunderbird167 and thank you.
Tha aircraft was the personal use of an Indian Industrialist during the 70 and 80’s . It sat for 25 years at a private airfield at Nagda beside a huge chemical and rayon producing plant . I have been honoured to be involved and we dismantled her and moved her to one of the familiys Cement plants at Sedam , about 3 hours from Hyderabad, The aircraft is now in the staff colony at the gate and sits proudly as a memorial to the previous owner. It will be cared for and looked after by staff there and hopefully be preserved for many years to come. She was in very poor state when we arived and riddled with corrosion and has been quite a challenge to say the least !!
Top work,
Where in India
What is the long term plan
Is it now in a museum ?Regards