What obsolete doctrine are you referring to…. winning?
How about fighting the Soviet Air Force in Europe, expecting actual resistance or expecting a bvr scenario where the enemy will consist of several hundred aircraft?
There are several reasons why the original order of over 600 fighters got canceled at 185ish…
For RuAF i hope they make a single engined fighter in the 8-9 tonne class using the 117 engine.
Is this the latest fad/discovery? What’s the principal advantage?…besides looking sexier.
It has a lot to do with eliminating the corner effect and reducing RCS in the horisontal plane. In some cases it can even improve turning.
Well trolled jhawk…
Hasnt the problem been that atmospheric attenuation is fairly high in the useable wavelengths?
IIRC an artillery shell needs almost 20KW to ignite (Raytheon did tests with a 20KW laser igniting shells 500m away).
Similarily the A-60 and YAL-1 used wavelengths of around 10 microns where the absorption level ranges from 0.1-10dB per km depending on climate, altitude etc. If we assume the low end (0.1dB loss per km) and a target needing 20KW to ignite (5KW more than current Russian radars) then the max range is 40km.
I get that the concept is interesting… but what KW rating and frequency/wavelengths are we talking about?
Lasers again? Did it work for the A-60 or Yal-1?
Whats interesting is the frequency.
Umm, because F414 is a larger and heavier engine with significantly different operating characteristics and Rafale would require extensive modifications to accommodate it to (worse than) no purpose?
Well the Rafale started out with the 404, and the 414 is supposed to fit in the same footprint. So its not entirely off as a suggestion.
Why not license F414 and go for a line compatible with Gripen?.
A Rafale with F414 EPE would be nice. 24T thrust in a fighter weighing 10T empty or 15 loaded would be pretty awesome.
Did they ever actually decide on a shafaq design? Ive seen one that looks like the product of a super hornet making a baby with a rhino (in this case its a good thing) while another design proposal was a Yak130 clone.
Here are some pics of what i mean.
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What I dont get is why they wont opt for a classic design that is aerodynamically stable and already incorporates several stealth features. The Mirages, Draken, F111 etc springs to mind. Its doable.
This isn’t really crystal ball gazing, more putting all the pieces together.
I’d say the plans are about 97% official, whats lacking is a roadmap with a timetable. 😉
Whilst it’s not official, you can see both the French and the British using their older airframes as nodes for control of a world beating UCAV force multiplier.
I’d say its pretty official as a concept.
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And suddenly air warfare became a lot more complex..
We are talking about the basic F-22A in its present form, though. Now imagine the design would be evolved into strike-optimized F-22B (for one tenth of the development cost of the F-35) – what exactly the F-22B could not do compared to what the F-35A will be able to in 2020 and beyond?
Maybe commonality with F35B and C? The F35 is big, but the F22 is even bigger and heavier so imho the F35, even as it seems now, will in the end be a lower cost option. Its about 1/3rd less in weight terms, built around more modern tech and is single engined.
At least in theory that sounds good.
Fredaykin & FBW. I dont think anyone is saying stealth is completely useless. But going by historical data we find that stealth alone offers very little advantage when it comes to survivability. Nobody is disputing the fact that a lower RCS object can get closer to a target undetected, or that it can be useful.
The only issue is that some individuals over estimate the usefulness of stealth to an almost perverse level. The F35 is very well designed for it’s specific purpose, being part of a US strike package and work as a missile hauler for A2A. Ie it is an offensive system, primarily designed for strike missions. For the AA fighting in contested air space they have the F22.
The reason the F35 is debated at all is because most airforces are expected to work in a defensive environment where the enemy is likely to have superiority in numbers (ie a red invasion from the east). To counter this one needs extra everything, stealth is just one attribute out of many. Kinematics, maintainability and useful payload are all just as important and the key is balance rather than over optimising a single attribute.
One has to remember that in Europe, the Germans could easily have gone the stealth fighter way back in the early 80s… but they chose a highly agile path in the Eurofighter instead.
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Above is the MBB Lampyridae, the option to go for the BVR superiority machine was on the table but rejected in favor of a balanced approach. Going the extra mile for improved stealth has always been on the table but it has until now been rejected. The compromises havent been worth it.
EDIT: And thats where the actual debate is. One side questions if the compromises are worth it, while the others either treat stealth as a revolution or ignores the penalties it has on other parameters. IMHO the F22 is the only fighter with no compromises, but that was so expensive that the US only can afford some 185 of them. And that is what happens when compromises arent accepted.
Again, there is no way to evaluate which missions were “more dangerous” in any independent way. The F-117 may well have fared worse than the F-16 if assigned the same mission as the F-16, flown in daylight, etc. On the other hand, the same may be true of the reverse and F-16s flown over Baghdad during the opening hours of the war even at night might have fared poorly.
It is almost as if mission planners would want to take into account each platform’s capabilities when assigning targets and designing missions… :rolleyes:
Crazy concept I know, but maybe, just maybe, you can’t simply throw out some numbers and try to draw overly broad conclusions from them. 😀
The bottom line is that drawing from all available information in 1991 the US concluded that stealth was an incredibly powerful enabler and sought to incorporate it into their next generation aircraft. They weren’t alone in drawing this conclusion as seen by the wide participation in the JSF program, and the desire of many forces around the world to incorporate low-observable strike aircraft into their forces.(whether as UCAVs or manned aircraft)
Well, daytime strikes like package Q where the most dangerous missions. Daytime strikes where a lot more dangerous than night time strikes. Low alt strikes where more dangerous than medium alt strikes. IR SAMs and AAA where more effective than radar guided SAMs. The F16 flew more of the low alt and daytime strikes (and thus exposing itself to the shorter rangedged air defences), ie the F16 flew more dangerous missions. Simple as that.
And I say it again, these are just the facts. 72% of all aircraft combat damages and losses occured during the day (less than 20% of all strike sorties).
Pls tell me that those are not the most dangerous missions.
… somehow I am not surprised that you are once again seeking to avoid acknowledge your errors. Let me repeat, a missile need not match its target’s turn radius in order to successfully intercept it. In the case above the target was turning hard and the missile made only minor adjustments.
Yes, hypothetically the target could have attempted an evasive maneuver after the missile lined up its intercept, forcing the missile to correct its course in a more meaningful way, but manned aircraft can not simply pull Gs in whichever direction they wish at any moment. A fighter needs to roll first if it wishes to execute a hard course change in a new direction, and even once a pilot pulls back on the stick G onset is not instantaneous. It is possible to dodge a missile of course… but modern missiles are sufficiently maneuverable that actually doing so within a missile’s NEZ is unlikely.
You are just debating your own straw man arguments here. Im talking about what happens outside the NEZ with a change in lead, you are talking about what happens inside NEZ.
If anything it makes me remember this paper, The effects of self-affirmation and graphical information on factual misperceptions
I have really enjoyed your straw man debating technique and the use of emoticons, but I think this is the last time I waste my time on you for a while.
Here is the bottom line: GAO summery of Desert Storm
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?126574-GAO-summary-of-Desert-Storm
I think we could add the Rand study for Allied Force as well to that list?
Unfortunately (for the topic) the B2 only flew 45 (out of 49 planned) missions in allied force. Considering the rate of losses, the 45 sorties is too small to even be included.
Again, Sukhoi won’t be spending tens of thousands of dollars in paint just to troll some “fan-artists”. They are doing serious stuff there with that cammo, not having a laugh at fan-art.
Next up they will make the Pak FA look like an F35 from above. Current color scheme is just to test how well they can make it look like another aircraft. This is well worth the millions they spend every time they’re painting the aircraft.