There was the AESA-problem, the fact that Gripen is a direct competitor to HAL Tejas (very similar in size and uses the same engine) and some other problems like how sensitive the Gripen system is to third party embargos.
So the options where Russian jets, french, EADS or some US option. The russians never had a chance since their fleet looks like this:
272 or 314 Su30MKIs on order/157 delivered
157 MiG 29UPG
102 MiG 27 (ok, its old)
153 MiG 21 (to be replaced very soon)
And thats all Russian jets. Later Pak FA will be added to the list. The need for diversifying was pretty substantial. (Other jets are 55 Mirage 2000 and 151 SEPECAT Jaguar)
So there are only 3 options left and none of them is Gripen. This is what was said on performance.
“Gripen meets or exceeds every operational requirement raised by the IAF in all roles — air-to-air fighter, [beyond visual range/within visual range], air-to-surface land and sea, and reconnaissance,”
So it wasn’t performance, it was the overall package that didnt suit India. Personally I think they did an excellent choice in picking Rafale. Obviously they have cash and if they want range then nothing comes close to the Rafale. Just look at this number:
Combat radius: 1,852+ km (1,000+ nmi) on penetration mission
And by penetration mission im not talking about something that includes ladies and alcohol.
Amongst modern fighter jets (as in not the F111) I think its pretty unique.
Well, what are the chances of Argentina getting such systems, induct them, train the pilots, technicians, develop the skills/tatics to actually fight with them before the Royal and the RAF do the same with QE/POW, JCA and Crowsnest?
Near zero.
It depends on how far in the future this will happen. But as it looks currently Argentina has nothing.
Still its a game of numbers. Currently they have 8 Mirage III as interceptors, oh, and they have 7 Mirage V for ground attack.
To think they suddenly, out of nowhere would buy 60+ modern fighter jets + heavy bombers, is… not impossible, only just as likely as someone finding the Loch Ness monster.
Considering there are plenty 4th gen fighters that can carry standoff missiles with 200km+ range i think its a tough situation for RAF considering they only have 2 airfields. 1 on the Falklands and one on a carrier.
All Argentina have to do is to bomb the living hell out of those two spots and the enemy (as in the UK) wont have any airplanes that are operational in the area.
The jets can fire at ships from a longer distance than the ships can respond. So with a fleet of Su34 in the attack role escorted by more capable jets that to higher alt CAP Argentina could be very succesful despite having less capable jets.
So basically UK has a huge tactical disadvantage if Argentina gets actual standoff weapons and a somewhat capable airforce. Then the ships will be sunk one by one. There isnt even necessarily a need to go to A2A combat.
Ok people as some believe Beautiful is not equal to cool, so give your opinions on three points:
1. Beautiful, elegant and clean: Eg. SR71 etc.
2. Cute: Eg. Props
3. Cool: Eg. Flankers
Excellent initiative.
Beautiful: SR71, Concorde (in flight), Draken, F-104, YF23, Pak FA
Cool: SR71, Draken, A10 (fully loaded)

Flankers are really good looking, but they arent as clean and elegant like many others.
As stated in a scientific post in the other thread there is a difference between being cool and elegant.
The SR71, Draken, YF23 and possibly Spitfire are all very streamlined designs that are surprisingly clean.
Damn it!
Wanted to add Concorde, SR71 and Draken but they are all taken. 🙁
The draken with SR71 flying together would be the most perfect combo evar.
Ah…..didn’t get the “signal”.:)
Its ok. Sarcasm in writing has a tendency to not be understood 100% of the times, no matter how retarded the claims are. Maybe we have Tigershark and similar users to thank for that.
Cheers.
That’s a fun list but shows so clearly how subjective these judgments are! Reminds me of the “Cool Board” on Top Gear…and we all know where that lead!:diablo:
Its not subjective, its scientific. Its got numbers and stuff in it so it must be true.
I would like to add X32 with the scientific score 1 1 1 3, total 6, if prototypes are ok.
Not very modern, but the Kalinin K7 was a monstrosity:
Looks like a solid 9G capable interceptor 😉
You have to take inflation into account as well.
The thing driving the costs are usually new features and weight. Your examples proves that.
Lets just say that the coming 6th gen US fighter will be limited to SDB and missiles internally, weigh <10’000 kg and have less integrated sensors. For instance sensors for all uncommon radarbands will be moved to escorting UCAVs, the onboard IRST will consist of 3 cameras instead of 6 like the F35 has and the cockpit will be made with simplicity in mind. (No invisible floor thing, touchscreens and HMDS will do). And the airframe will not be made for STOVL.
I think you could add something more to the mix and still have a fairly cheap jet.
?!!!!!!!!!
Definitely beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Quit posting sexy jets, topic is fugly ones 😉
However, even good looks can become bad looks simply by applying a crappy paint job.
When’s all this kit like the L-Band radars and inlet blockers supposed to be fitted to a flying PAK-FA? Are they not leaving ait a little late in the game by now considering that testing the aircraft without these things (especially the inlet blockers airflow ramifications) will give vastly different results then testing the aircraft with them. I have to doubts about how much of this stuff is actually going to be seen on production airframes.
Thats for the future to tell. Pak FA is still a prototype.
The X35 and F35 differ a lot as well, or around 12% in weight between the A models. T10 and Su27 where also pretty different.
What we can see however is that the prototypes went from no radar or IRST to carry both. They have changed engine once (iirc) and they have visible covers for two additional radars on the lower sides of the nose behind the primary radar.
Regarding the blockers I havent seen any information on wether or not they actually are installed or not or if they have some testplates to try the airflow around the blockers when they get installed or if they will use them at all.
Mr Asakura posted some info on integrated blocker in the first stage of the engine as well as another touch of the dynamic airduct. What they finally decide on will be interesting, what we know is that they have many options on the table.
I also don’t think its RCS was in the same class as the F-35. That big opening at the front had to expose compressor blades and even if a screen were used as a shield ( so I’ve heard ), it would only work for a certain range of wavelengths.
Are you sure thats how it works? Sure, maybe some very short radar blockers have a limitation that actually matters but if you look at proposed solutions for the Pak FA you see that the blockers pretty much are miniature S or C ducts or angled “tunnels”.
To get past the blockers one pretty much need to use wavelangths that are long enough to get past the bending, and that usually means at least the UHF band.
Otherwise the reflections will be pretty marginal. Pak FA will carry L-band AESAs in the wings (15-30 cm) and that could be enough in some cases, but the primary radar (as always) is in the 24-37 mm range.
The X-32 is a brilliant design. Boeing could have done wonders with the design scaling it up with a pair of F414 or scaling down with an F110. They could have undercut F-35 even post JSF contest.
But that isnt the topic. It is ugly airplanes.
Its the same for the MiG 25, it isnt a beauty queen but it is a functional design. X32 just took the bad looks to a new level.
Here is another interesting construction.
Antonov A40 isnt mentioned?
X-32 might qualify as the ugliest, or one of the ugliest, military fighter jets. Il 40 of course being a tiny bit more hideous.![]()
Another strong contender:
The PA 22 wouldnt win a beauty contest, and you know its bad when the best looking part on the jet is a swastika.
Happy new whatever btw.