F-18 Hamburgerhow bout we just wipe off the entire middle east and take their oil and the rest of the world will be much happier w/o a Mecca Jerusalem.
F-18 Hamburgerhow bout we just wipe off the entire middle east and take their oil and the rest of the world will be much happier w/o a Mecca Jerusalem.
F-18 HamburgerTo the Hamburger.
No I am not Jewish but if I was, would it make any difference? Would you love me less?
Sauron
no, i’d make love to you the same way I do to anyone else 😉
F-18 HamburgerTo the Hamburger.
No I am not Jewish but if I was, would it make any difference? Would you love me less?
Sauron
no, i’d make love to you the same way I do to anyone else 😉
F-18 HamburgerHey Sauron, i was always wonderng. Are you Jewish?
F-18 HamburgerHey Sauron, i was always wonderng. Are you Jewish?
F-18 Hamburger“wasn’t it the other way around? Iraq using WMDs on Iranians?”
It may have been, I may well be mistaken but I was always under the impression that both sides used chemical weapons?
I have never suggested that Iran was a pro western democracy, that was others on this thread.
Regards,
kev35
okay. But yes, I’m pretty sure it was Iraq that used it on the Iranians. if you’ve some time, go read their history on Wikipedia. What’s happened there for the past 50 years is pretty ****** up.
you got a country that was largely illiterate. Initial gov’ts tried to improve it, but they were oppressive. later leaders tried to regain control of their economy, which was pretty much controlled by the West (particularly oil).. which led towards Mossadeq being ousted by British and US intel agencies after he attempted to nationalize the oil.. which then led towards the Shah who publicly stated his dislike of his own people. Very unpopular guy who did lots of human rights abuses.. but was supported by the west due to the oil issue and his anti-Soviet stance. led to the rise of the Ayatollahs, who many Iranians also dislike, but thought it was alot better than the Shah. And then shortly thereafter, the Iran-Iraq war, which at the time Iraq used WMDs and was pretty much supported by most of the world.. why? because the Arabs didn’t want their Monarchies threatened by a theological movement, thus they sided with Saddam.. as well as the major western powers. Which is why I can’t really blame them for feeling the way they do.
as for being anywhere near pro-Western.. the was alot of warming between the US and Iran during the 90’s.. back then Clinton was in office and his administration began lifting some sanctions (i believe it was nuts).. and Khatami was president of Iran.. the most liberal guy there who gave more rights to women, willing to have dialogue with the west, and stood up to the hard liners and ayatollah. Now.. we got the bush admin who lumped Iran as an Evil Axis, and people electing a president who is a hard liner, and US forces on both sides of their borders. doesn’t look too good for relations to me.
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edit
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went to look for clarifications on the WMD issue during that war and here it is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_iraq_war#Weapons_of_Mass_Destruction
seems like Iraq was the sole user, and Iranians suffered tens of thousands of casualties from it.. of which a large percentage were civilian.
F-18 Hamburger“wasn’t it the other way around? Iraq using WMDs on Iranians?”
It may have been, I may well be mistaken but I was always under the impression that both sides used chemical weapons?
I have never suggested that Iran was a pro western democracy, that was others on this thread.
Regards,
kev35
okay. But yes, I’m pretty sure it was Iraq that used it on the Iranians. if you’ve some time, go read their history on Wikipedia. What’s happened there for the past 50 years is pretty ****** up.
you got a country that was largely illiterate. Initial gov’ts tried to improve it, but they were oppressive. later leaders tried to regain control of their economy, which was pretty much controlled by the West (particularly oil).. which led towards Mossadeq being ousted by British and US intel agencies after he attempted to nationalize the oil.. which then led towards the Shah who publicly stated his dislike of his own people. Very unpopular guy who did lots of human rights abuses.. but was supported by the west due to the oil issue and his anti-Soviet stance. led to the rise of the Ayatollahs, who many Iranians also dislike, but thought it was alot better than the Shah. And then shortly thereafter, the Iran-Iraq war, which at the time Iraq used WMDs and was pretty much supported by most of the world.. why? because the Arabs didn’t want their Monarchies threatened by a theological movement, thus they sided with Saddam.. as well as the major western powers. Which is why I can’t really blame them for feeling the way they do.
as for being anywhere near pro-Western.. the was alot of warming between the US and Iran during the 90’s.. back then Clinton was in office and his administration began lifting some sanctions (i believe it was nuts).. and Khatami was president of Iran.. the most liberal guy there who gave more rights to women, willing to have dialogue with the west, and stood up to the hard liners and ayatollah. Now.. we got the bush admin who lumped Iran as an Evil Axis, and people electing a president who is a hard liner, and US forces on both sides of their borders. doesn’t look too good for relations to me.
—
edit
—
went to look for clarifications on the WMD issue during that war and here it is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_iraq_war#Weapons_of_Mass_Destruction
seems like Iraq was the sole user, and Iranians suffered tens of thousands of casualties from it.. of which a large percentage were civilian.
F-18 Hamburger“Iran isn’t exactly North Korea. Iran has large malls and shopping centers. Iran has lots of freeways with traffic congestion.”
Britain has lots of shopping centres and motorways. It didn’t make London immune from the attentions of Muslim terrorists who were actually British citizens, did it? Britain is a Democracy but we still manage, within that democracy, to allow our own citizens the freedom to attack the democracy in which they live. Somehow, I can’t see that being tolerated in Iran.
and what does that have to do with comparing Iran and N.Korea? As for Democracy.. certainly it’s much more democratic than pro-western regimes such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Is it as democratic as Europe or the US..no. The people can elect the President, but it seems, not the Ayatollah. Sexual differences and inequality are still present (but have been made lax due to Khatami).. but you will still find protests, infact lots of them between the two polar ends of politics.. those who are conservative and those who are reform minded.. they clash often, loudly, and sometimes violently.
Is Iran a democracy? Was the overthrow of the Shah a democratic process?
the shah wasn’t exactly the best leader, nor was his gov’t represent any kind of semblence of a democracy.
Some recent bombings in Iraq have been attributed to groups who had the bombs supplied or received their training from Iran. Can anyone tell me what the Pro-Western Democratic Government of Iran are doing to prevent the supply of materiel and training to Iraqi insurgents/terrorists/freedom fighters?
since when is Iran pro-western? as a matter of fact, there’s lots of news articles that concluded that British claims of Iranian involvement are based on obscure and inconclusive evidence.
The Iranian Government may or may not have peaceful intentions regarding their nuclear programme. But as they were not averse to using chemical weapons (WMD’s) in their war against Iraq, can we be truly confident that Iran will be able to control its nuclear technology in future? One Ayatollah dies, another hardliner replaces him….
wasn’t it the other way around? Iraq using WMDs on Iranians?
F-18 Hamburger“Iran isn’t exactly North Korea. Iran has large malls and shopping centers. Iran has lots of freeways with traffic congestion.”
Britain has lots of shopping centres and motorways. It didn’t make London immune from the attentions of Muslim terrorists who were actually British citizens, did it? Britain is a Democracy but we still manage, within that democracy, to allow our own citizens the freedom to attack the democracy in which they live. Somehow, I can’t see that being tolerated in Iran.
and what does that have to do with comparing Iran and N.Korea? As for Democracy.. certainly it’s much more democratic than pro-western regimes such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Is it as democratic as Europe or the US..no. The people can elect the President, but it seems, not the Ayatollah. Sexual differences and inequality are still present (but have been made lax due to Khatami).. but you will still find protests, infact lots of them between the two polar ends of politics.. those who are conservative and those who are reform minded.. they clash often, loudly, and sometimes violently.
Is Iran a democracy? Was the overthrow of the Shah a democratic process?
the shah wasn’t exactly the best leader, nor was his gov’t represent any kind of semblence of a democracy.
Some recent bombings in Iraq have been attributed to groups who had the bombs supplied or received their training from Iran. Can anyone tell me what the Pro-Western Democratic Government of Iran are doing to prevent the supply of materiel and training to Iraqi insurgents/terrorists/freedom fighters?
since when is Iran pro-western? as a matter of fact, there’s lots of news articles that concluded that British claims of Iranian involvement are based on obscure and inconclusive evidence.
The Iranian Government may or may not have peaceful intentions regarding their nuclear programme. But as they were not averse to using chemical weapons (WMD’s) in their war against Iraq, can we be truly confident that Iran will be able to control its nuclear technology in future? One Ayatollah dies, another hardliner replaces him….
wasn’t it the other way around? Iraq using WMDs on Iranians?
F-18 HamburgerWhy dose the west mistrust the middle east,while watching the news today i was surprised to see a report from IRAN by a former Iranian citizen whos report made out it was a surprise that western trends were in IRAN,it also asked the people what they thought we thought of them wanting nuclear power,why shouldn’t other countries be allowed the nuclear technology.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to find out what the middle eastern people thought of us,seen as they only see the TV version of our lives as we see the same of theirs.
Iran isn’t exactly North Korea. Iran has large malls and shopping centers. Iran has lots of freeways with traffic congestion. Iran has people opposing political leaders and you have two clear distinct factions. those who are reformers and those who are more traditional conservatives. They have internet there, and the country is much more stable than Pakistan or even Saudi Arabia.
why the mistrust? I think it’s largely an issue of influence and economic rivalry in the region rather than ideological. Initially secular gov’ts like Iraq, and the monarchies of the Gulf, feared the theological movement from Iran. So did the west. Nowadays you see Iran and the west competing over investment and political influence over neighboring countries i.e Central Asia, etc..
F-18 HamburgerWhy dose the west mistrust the middle east,while watching the news today i was surprised to see a report from IRAN by a former Iranian citizen whos report made out it was a surprise that western trends were in IRAN,it also asked the people what they thought we thought of them wanting nuclear power,why shouldn’t other countries be allowed the nuclear technology.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to find out what the middle eastern people thought of us,seen as they only see the TV version of our lives as we see the same of theirs.
Iran isn’t exactly North Korea. Iran has large malls and shopping centers. Iran has lots of freeways with traffic congestion. Iran has people opposing political leaders and you have two clear distinct factions. those who are reformers and those who are more traditional conservatives. They have internet there, and the country is much more stable than Pakistan or even Saudi Arabia.
why the mistrust? I think it’s largely an issue of influence and economic rivalry in the region rather than ideological. Initially secular gov’ts like Iraq, and the monarchies of the Gulf, feared the theological movement from Iran. So did the west. Nowadays you see Iran and the west competing over investment and political influence over neighboring countries i.e Central Asia, etc..
F-18 HamburgerCompletely agree!
Though, The Rock isn’t that bad.
come on, every movie needs a token!
here, try and find the token in this movie..
F-18 HamburgerCompletely agree!
Though, The Rock isn’t that bad.
come on, every movie needs a token!
here, try and find the token in this movie..
F-18 Hamburgerquite honestly, I think Dolph Lundgren or Arnold would’ve looked more like the main character in Doom
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