well european powers never even achieved empire status but kept constantly fighting whit each others so why did it affect onto China that they did have secure their borders.
But as whit economical theoryes, Werent those just inflicts of economical devolpment, why those rose in Europe and America is due that their economics were envolping. But the guestion should be asked then why didnt chinese economics rose in similar manner?

from the few eastern philosophies I read.. I can’t remember too many that were focused on economics and markets.. i.e Confucius taught mostly on what a ruler should do, harmony, social interactions etc.. but very little on economics (but of course, he was from a time long long before any of the western economists came to be).. you could even say that the differences in belief was a factor too.

when Europe was industrializing, they had the benefit of having alot of local coal nearby to power their industrialization. The Asian countries never discovered or at least used it (in the same manner) until much later. Plus the way society and economy was set up, they never had the need to enter the same kind of industrialization as Europe did..they had a large population and had enough efficient man power that prevented them from adopting something similar at the time.

you also had people like Adam Smith, Thomas Hobbes, and later Keynes and Marx, who contributed to European economic thinking.. I cant think of any Asian philosopher who wrote anythign in the same scale and detail in regards to economics.

Well does it really matter how long the global dominance has lasted when talking about the reasons why this has been achieved? And Im not beeing eurocentric, I do realise that Asia has produced fine empires of their own limited range but why havent Asia produced powers so strong that they have taken colonyes from Europe, or US?? As i said to Chinawhite its no good to try to avoid the issue by guestioning comon history knowledge and stick into penny interpretation issues. If the eurocentric wiev bothers you, then consider the question from otherway around, Why isent China the dominator of the world? Why didnt Chinese colonise America inspite they had skills to do so as Chinawhite there has so many times stated it?
And to not make me repeat the starting arguments let me give you a little more to considere: If the isolation and stagnation of Chinese empire has been ideological matter, Why havent those same things rose from Europe or in US??

Well, the Chinese did alot of exploration in the Ming Dynasty..but it eventually broke the bank and the Ming emperors had alot of problems with Mongols that needed funding.. so that ended that. And even then, most dynasties before the Qing.. the Chinese never really established firm control over their frontiers like Xinjiang or Tibet.. their presence was usually minimal and they let the people there do their own thing. It’s only in the last 50 years did they start doing more stuff there.

Also, and most importantly.. the Europeans made alot of progress in Economic theories and philosophies.. its these ideas that sparked the global conquest for resources in order to fuel industrialization. by the time China, Japan, etc noticed it and started implementing it for themselves.. the Americans and Europeans were already established in the new economic order. a Century or two later.. by the time other developing countries (i.e China, India, etc) started industrializing.. the developed countries already used a good chunk of the resources. It’s one reason why China and India are reluctant to sign on Kyoto.

I would imagine the average wage would be the PPP figure i gave. And yes i know its a retirment page for british pensioners but it gives you a good example of the cost of living

BTW: Its 22 dollars in australian currency

ok, lets end it here. I don’t know if Malaysia ever adopted a minimum wage law, but according to this article
http://www.atimes.com/se-asia/BE12Ae02.html

many factory operators and entry-level blue-collar workers in Malaysia receive more than 500 ringgit ($132) monthly

and according to this, also around the same year
http://www.pacificbridge.com/Publications/MalaysiaFall01.htm
Maximum Hours per week = 48 hours

—
In France, the minimum wage is €7.61 (US$9.18) per hour
recently it’s 35 hours per week max law, has been changed to 48.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4373167.stm
—
now lets do the math
52 weeks out of 12 months = 4.3 weeks average

Malaysian entry level blue factory worker makes = $132 monthly

French worker working at minimum wage at max hour = $1381 montly using 35 hours, $1894 using a 48 hour job.
—

now using that link.. it says

If recorded videos, VCDs or DVDs are imported they will be checked for content and there is a checking charge of RM30

So if some Malaysian guy imported a DVD, he could afford to pay off 16 charges (500 ringgit/30 RM charge)

A French minimum wage worker could easily pay off 10x more.

Because if you ever been there, any know currency is taken. Greenbacks Yen Euro aussie dollar are all taken as money instead of malaysian money. But thats only coming from someone which has actually been there been there. Singapore is the stop off place for nearly every australian flight sometimes you stay for one hour to transit or you wait one week and go inot malaysia

oh, so a Malaysian worker in Malaysia is paid in Euros and the same amount as their French counterpart?

We arent comparing japan/tokyo we are comaing malaysia to france. A example was coffee in paris was about $20 a cup while in malaysia/kula lumpur you got get a whole meal for $2. Living cost txes and such are extremely high in france and italy. Milan is a very expensive city to.

and where did you get the figure for $20 a cup? and are you using USD or AUD since you guys use the Dollar too. But it doesn’t matter because unless you can provide how much the average Malaysian person earns, or their minimum wage.. using some one elses living standards just doesn’t make sense.

Cost of living

Several retirees have calculated that their living expenses within Malaysia are far less then their tax savings making it, in effect, cost free to live here. Property prices are low: a three-bedroomed apartment in a condominium in Penang is available from £36,000. Utility charges are low and with temperatures never dropping below 22oC at night, there is no need for central heating. Air-conditioning is normally considered essential, at least for the bedrooms. Even if air-conditioning is used regularly, the total electricity bill should not exceed £600 per annum and many families only use half that amount.

There is no piped natural gas, but a large cylinder of LP gas is less than £2.20 including delivery, usually within four hours but often within 30 minutes. Telephone land lines cost £3.90 per month and local calls are the equivalent of four pence a minute. The cheapest international calls are via call cards and a £4.30 card enables just under four hours of call time to the UK. Water and sewage combined charges average less than £3 a month. Postal charges are also well below those in the UK as a first class stamp costs less than five pence and an airmail post card to anywhere in the world costs seven pence.

Local domestic help is readily available and while it is not necessary to have a maid if living in a condominium, it certainly makes life more pleasant. Maids are available for £1.50 an hour and, for many couples, hiring a maid for just a few hours a day to do the washing, ironing and cleaning is sufficient.
A full-time live-in Indonesian maid can be hired for about £75 per month compared to £110 for an English-speaking maid from the Philippines. They can be obtained through an agency, but the best method is to take over a maid from a friend who is leaving, or to hire one on the recommendation of a friend. Most larger properties have an additional maid’s sleeping quarter. Public transport is much cheaper than in the UK (a 6-km bus ride costs about 10 pence). Cars, however, are significantly more expensive to buy than in the UK, especially imported models with a large engine capacity, while locally-assembled cars are about 10-15 per cent higher. (Foreigners coming in on the MM2H scheme are entitled to buy or import one car, tax and duty free, making it considerably cheaper than in the UK.) Running costs are very cheap; petrol is less than 20 pence per litre. Road tax for a two litre car is £57 and £18 for a one litre car. Third party insurance for all cars without a no-claims bonus is £14 per annum. A no-claims bonus can be transferred from a UK insurer. Imported cigarettes cost less than £1 a packet – local brands even less – while premium imported spirits are about £12 a bottle. Locally bottled gin, vodka, rum, brandy and whisky are available for less than £4 per bottle. They serve the purpose but for most expatriates the whisky is noticeably inferior to their usual proprietary brands.
http://www.escapeartist.com/OREQ13/Retirement_In_Malaysia1.html

you do realize that page you linked to is for retirement right? It’s geared towards British people interested in retiring in Malaysia where they can stretch their savings. Meaning, they’ve already accumulated Euros for savings. You should find out what the average wage is in Malaysia, or at least the minimum wage (if they use one).

WRT food and nationalism, IMO NASA should contract-out their space food to the manufacturers of the space food consumed in the Shen Zhou V and VI capsules. 8D

http://news.163.com/05/1013/16/1VV4ET0S0001125G.html
http://news.163.com/05/1013/16/1VV4ET0S0001125G_2.html
http://news.sina.com.cn/s/2005-10-12/12157150484s.shtml

Chinese space food > American and Russki space food.
ever saw their stuff? it’s crap in powdered form!

If we compare rural europe to rural asia both have about the same lifestlye. Thats a fact. The pay is smaller but living is cheaper to. Everything in france is expensive. One cup of coffee is 20dollars in paris. I have to work at least 2 hours to to afford a latte.

and? Paris has a high cost of living, most Metropolis do, i.e Moscow, New York, Tokyo..etc

and why are you using Australian dollars in “Asia” Asia is alot of countries.. 2 Australian dollars won’t get you much in Japan. But it doesn’t matter, you should be using the wages in THEIR country, not some one elses.

it doesn’t matter, unless either of you can actually provide what an average wage is and cost of living, then your claims are meaningless. However I’ve provided 4 different measures of economic living standards, in which all 4 use different methods on determining the standard of living, and they all say the same thing. Unless you can provide a better system I’d like to hear it, because using examples such as “Thailand is as good as France” or “Coffee costs more in Paris” is meaningless unless you provide the entire picture.

No thanks

No red meat, Tandoori Chicken for me.

I like Masala and that weird rice you guys use