ArthurFor all the noise that comes from the EU, it is the US that takes actions against threats, real or percieved. Hell, in Bosnia we saw what the EU was capable of… jacksh!t. And that was in its own turf, it was the US that came in and stopped the slaughter of Muslims and Yugoslavia doesn’t even have any oil’.
Revisionist nonsense – the US did even less in Bosnia than the other NATO countries, except crashing the occasional F-16 or helping a Galeb crash. The reason the war in Bosnia was negotiated to an end in december 1995 was simply because both the Serb and Croat/Muslem sides of Bosnia had taken a reasonable amount of ground to come to a federal solution for a Bosnian state – with ethnically clense parts. Apart from providing some weapons to the Muslims and Croats (together with countries like Iran and organisations like Al Qaida), the US didn’t do jack sh!t in achieving that. There were no US troops on the ground in Bosnia except for a few liaisons guys, the US didn’t partake or even witness any fighting. Apart from a bit of diplomacy together with the UN and USCE, the US did FAR LESS in Bosnia than the rest of NATO.
The UN is good for somethings, debating and humanitarian aid. That’s about it, so, it’s not totally useless. Oh yeah, it’s also good for subsidizing third-world, underpaid armies.
You’re forgetting UNESCO, you’re forgetting disease control, you’re forgetting subsidaries like IATA…
About not asking Israel to denuclerize vs. asking Iran: Plainly, it’s not in America’s interest to denuke Israel but it is clearly in US interest to denuke Iran. I would argue that it’s not in anyone’s best interest for Iran to have nuke capability.
Why not? While Iran has definately engaged in supporting covert military operations abroad, it has got a far more peaceful record than some other nuclear powers i can think of. If countries like India and Pakistan can be trusted with nuclear weapons, i can’t see why Iran can not.
ArthurAre there no AC-47 (or equivalent) still working in South America? Even with turbo props (which I recall some got upgrade with) they would still be old and with guns – which the Greek ones don’t have…
Flood
A number still should be airworthy with El Salvador and possibly Honduras, but the last sightings tell the guns are removed and they now fly as trash haulers. I think all are surviving ones there are Basler turboprop versions though. Far less fun.
ArthurI wish not to disgree with you on the F-4Fs but my Coz. is a Mec. with the Silver Lobos and he told me that the 4s are in the process of getting Glass Cockpit put into them. As for Tax Reason they are still carried on the USAF inventory so they are USAF on lease back to the GAF.
Hi CM!
There is one MFD (multi-function display, a TV screen/monitor if you wish) fitted to the F-4F KWS cockpit, but that doesn’t make it a glass cockpit. The confusion is probably because the German Phantoms at Holloman not too long ago have changed from not-upgraded F-4F to F-4F KWS.
And while the Phantoms surely look like full-blown USAF birds, they most certainly are not. Even their official ‘USAF serials’ (i believe most are in fiscal year 1975) are only there because the original Foreign Military Sales contract under which they were delivered was negotiated through the Pentagon – they actually carry FMS serials, not USAF tailnumbers. Even though FMS serials fit within the USAF system.
The aircraft were fully paid for by the Luftwaffe, as do they pay for everything to keep the aircraft running. The only reason they are painted in USAF markings is because that way, they don’t have to pay foreign landing fees when flying in the US. Of course this trick only works for USAF-operated aircraft, the Tornados at Holloman have their normal German paintjobs.
I saw a MCAS Cherry Point QF-4 at NAS Brunswick two Weeks ago they still have USN Bu# so they are still on the Navys inventory if they are being operated like the drones on the West Coast they have Civilian N #s.
Nope, drones built under military contracts keep their military serials. They are still on the military inventory (both the Navy and USAF operate QF-4s), so why should they get N-numbers?
The picture i’ve attached shows a USAF QF-4 (a former F-4E), still with it’s military tailnumber 68-0345. It’s the same with the Navy drones – that doesn’t mean they won’t get shot down. It’s the same procedure as with the QF-86es, PQM-102s, DF-100s and QF-106es before.
I read that when the Germans retire there F-4s they would hev operated them close to 50 Years this must set some sort of recourd for Type operated by one Nation.
That would mean the Germans have to continue flying their Phantoms until 2025 (they got their F-4F’s in 1975, the RF-4E’s were a bit earlier but these are now retired), which exceeds the current planning by more than a decade. The Germans are right now slowly in the process of replacing their F-4F’s with Typhoons, with the final F-4F to be retired by 2012-2015. Still almost forty years, which is respectable enough.
EDIT: forgot the pic, the USAF QF-4 (no pilots aboard).
ArthurThe UN is a Joke always will be and always going to be, Since its inception it can’t do anything right remember that little Police Action Called the Korean Conflict who do you think start that the USA Hell know it was Red China with backing from the USSR(Russia) who by the way are permanent memebers.
The UN is not a joke, it’s a useable global forum in which things can be debated. While totally incompetent in military matters, this doesn’t mean it is useless although that seems to be too far beyond the scope of some people’s mental abilities, or debilitated view on history.
The Korean conflict was started by the North Koreans, China and the Soviet Union had nothing to do with it. China only entered the war when it found US troops on it’s doorstep, and the Soviet Union was far too busy establishing it’s WarPac buffer zone to try and do something in the East. As for the UN during the Korean War: the permanent seat of China in those days was taken by the Republic of China, currently known as Taiwan. It was only in the early 1970s when Nixon kicked the Taiwanese out of the UN and brought in the commies. The Soviet Union wasn’t in the UN in the early 1950s either, since Stalin thought it to be an irrelevant organisation. I’m sure you’ll be happy relating to Uncle Joe….
Then their is the whole Middle East problem who start that mess was it the USA No it was European Countrys like yours and Germany and England the French who had Former Colonys and want a pupput state so they could get there Oil cheap. Does the Sikes Treaty mean anything to you.
What part of the Middle East did PLA’s country colonise? If you want to talk this talk, better know what you’re talking about or you might discover you’re only making a joke of yourself.
Then again, i’m sure US influences in Saudi Arabia, Israel or Iran (1956-1979) have nothing to do with the current situation in the Middle East, right? I am sure the US did not organise a coup against the democratically elected priminister Mossadeq of Iran in 1956 just to create a “pupput state and get there Oil cheap.”
As for the USA improving its own econemy your right and the first thing we should do is pull out of the UN that would save us a few Billion a year then we should pull out of the World bank because its time we stop being the Lenders to the World.
You’re not the Lenders to the World, you are the borrowers. The US has got a huge trade deficit, which is coughed up by the rest of the world. It just happens to be the case that the currency in which oil is trades, is the US$. And as long as the world keeps buying dollars from the US, the US can afford to spend more than it actually makes. Ever heard of theBretton Woods agreement?
The US is not the Lenders to the World. Even a close look at the owners of current US pension funds, investment funds and high-price real estate would show you that. For some reason, the small country where PLA is from is extremely well established in running American pensions and insurances…
Hey PLA can you name me the three countrys that have payed back the USA there WWII War Debit and your country is’nt one of them.
Nope, you never heard of the Bretton Woods agreement, nor of it’s results.
Now as for the rest of the World Bashing us Americians you know what I’m just alittle tired of hearing you Winny Europeans the next time there is a Natural Disasters in the World don’t come asking the USA to fund the rebuild its time you Europeans step up.
Yes, those poor Americians are in dire need of people teaching them their own language. What more?
The USA has been hit with three Major Hurricains over the past month or so has the EU offered to help out Hell No, but you sure want to bash us on Iraq the Middle East, Free Trade, But when you have Flooding or a Earth Quake its the USA who is expected to step up first. Well Buddy its time we start looking out for are selfs because the UN and the EU aren’t going to do Squat.
I don’t recall any US help for the floodings we had here in Europe on various occasions over the last decade, but then again we could deal with that ourselves. And while i surely feel sorry for all those people who lost their posessions because of the hurricanes in areas like Alabama, Florida and Haiti, i think only the latter ones need external help. The other ones are after al the alleged ‘Lenders to the World’.
End of Rant anyone care to do battle with a Yank who has been their and back and Also lost many friends in 9/11 then bring it on but be prepared to get stomp on.
Sorry to hear about your friends, but using your friends’ demise to excuse for this ill-informed rant is a bit pathetic. Or insensitive. Or tasteless. Glad i’m not one of your dead friends.
Oh to the Moderators if you don’t like my comments then thats to bad you let this thread start and over the past few years you’ve let alot of Anti-American Crap go on so as an American I’m going to fire back with both Barrels.
Guess what? This moderator nicely leaves your rant right where you put it, and let you deal with the consequences.
If you wan’t to discuss anything with me then pm or send a pm to Mark12 and he will contact me but as long as you are going to allow these Very Anti-American threads to happen while US and UK soilders are being Killed then expect me to jump in. You have been Warned.
Soldiers of PLA’s country have been killed in Iraq too, but those are not important to you?
ArthurWhich makes the JH-7 roughly the machine the Mitsubishi F-1 should have been 😀
Silly though, the very same engines Seahawk and me (and many others here) once heard flying over our heads while they were pushing British Phantoms through the sky, now propel those JH-7s.
Mixtec,
The AMX doesn’t have half the targetting gear of the Su-39, nor does it have the survivability, nor does it have the sturdiness… if you want to compare the Su-25T series with the AMX, i’d like to add a peach to your mixed fruitbowl if you don’t mind.
ArthurThe 375WEG at Tyndall is also a QF-4 operator, operating the drones on behalf of the USAF. However, there are no operational Phantoms anywhere in US military service (the 20FS only flies in US marked aircraft for tax reasons) and the Spooks that do fly are all drones. One thing about the F-4Fs: although they got quite a number of upgrades during the F-4-KWS program, a glass cockpit wasn’t part of that.
Oldest operational aircraft are probably indeed the Greek Dakotas, although a handful of other countries still fly DC-3s/C-47s as well. The Greeks are unique in having seen military service throughout their entire career, with now over half a century with Greece alone. I think these would be the only military aircraft from the 1940s still in service anywhere.
Aircraft from the first half of the 1950s survive in a number of countries, most notably the T-33s in places like Bolivia, Mexico and Iran. Albania still has a few airworthy MiG-15UTI’s from before 1955, which they got through China (which got them from both Soviet and Czechoslovak production) I think these would take the credit for oldest operational combat aircraft in the world.
If you look at the five years from 1955 to 1960, then there are literally hundreds of those still flying in airforces all around the world, with early C-130s and KC-135s being obvious of course. But lighter transports and utility aircraft also survive from this era.
The Antonov An-2 would have to be up there too. It is still used today.
True, but hardly any of the original Soviet-built An-2s survive. I think all current military An-2s are Polish-built, from the 1960s or later. And the aircraft can still be very young… Vietnam got a number of them factory-fresh from Poland in 1999, and China also still has them in production. That’s 57 production years… The H-6 (Chinese Tu-16 Badger) is appearantly also still in production, so that’s another aircraft having a production run over 50 years long.
ArthurThey most certainly are not part of the Beryoza RWR – those antenna are bigger. But the small humps have repeatedly been called radar warning reciever antenna, like on the nose of the Mi-24 (the small ones under the windshield, not the larger SPO-15s on the side of the cockpit). Perhaps for the older SPO-10 system?
ArthurI never thought i would be thrilled by some CGI animation, but these are stunning!
ArthurThere was the Deep Space project with the ion-drive, but that was appearantly more of a cheap side project to keep NASA’s nerd techies happy. And not a serious, expensive and Astronaut-maffia approved attempt at re-inventing the wheel (or chemical rocket, if you wish).
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/deepspace_propulsion_000816.html
Bad thing about the ion drive is of course it’s size, so i agree completely that for a larger object to be sent out at somewhat reasonable speeds, nuclear is the way to go.
ArthurEvery now and then, NASA actually spends money on doing something NEW – and that always reminds me of me as a kid being all enthusiastic about astronauts, space, the lot.
Besides, the moons of Jupiter are fun. Those funds are definately well spent, considering my curiosity in them 🙂
ArthurDon’t forget there is quite a bit of aerodynamic difference between the Su-35 and any sort of twin-seat Flanker. The frontal area of the MKI is bigger than that of the -35 by no insignificant margin, and you have to add the additional keel area of the big canopy to that as well. This could well explain the difference in Fomin’s figures.
ArthurThe L 39 is from the seventies (the design is about the same age as the Hawk), you’re confusing the L 39 Albatross with the L 29 Delfin which is a late-1950s trainer.
ArthurI don’t know of any combat aircraft with either a cockpit voice recorder or a flight data recorder, and the Fitter certainly hasn’t got one.
ArthurJa, you first have to give me the contact details for those legs next to that MiG, and it was actually a carton of wine, not a bottle.
As for Australia’s rice production, it’s 700.000 tons annually with 85% of that exported. The rice paddies are actually in former desert areas, using water from the Snowy Mountains. Here’s more on Ozzie rice: http://www.agriculture.asn.au/aust_agri/agri_industries/rice/marketing.htm
ArthurThe Romanians didn’t just use an Islander, that one was actually built in Romania. It is one of the Islanders built under license in Romania, ment to replace aircraft like the An-2.
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