AurelAt least, we see some movement towards collaboration. First step made. The cheapest way for the UK to obtain and maintain a carrier force would be 100% identical ships. That means wether go for the F-35C or (my preference) Rafale. (right as they are, to keep them interchangable).
Hawks and other “off-sets” have always been discussed.
AurelAurelThe first question is, would a new angency replace national structures or not ?
Second question, who controls the new construct ?
And final question: how do you want to finance it ? Every country hast to pay a fxed sum scaled by it’s GDP ?
Doesn’t work, as long as we have dramatical differences in the defense expenditure of the various members.
AurelI’m a big fan of federalism. Creating a new agency doesn’t help much if the budget stays the same. In contrary, it only finances administration instead of research.
AurelI think a combined British/French carrier-programme would make much sense.
-British carriers
-French Rafale
-British “carrier-hawks”
In the long run, this would be much cheaper I guess, then two seperate programmes.
Amsar, Meteor und Stormshadow/Scalp could be only a preview on further joint systems for Typhoon/Rafale.
AurelAnd at the end of the day, that’s why military action was completely and totally legal in Iraq. The cease fire was violated, and therefore nullified under existing UNSCR resolutions. Why do people not want to see that? It’s all there in black and white. If you want to argue occupation and regime change, you’ll have a much better time of it and an actual leg to stand on.
No, you twist here two things.
It was simply no automatism. Because of this, we had those funny powerpoints, showing Iraqi WMD’s. The U.S. failed in providing hard facts for their argumentation.
Would have been completely ok, if they had provided facts. Now, we, the West, are seen as Rambos, that only care for international right if it suits their needs.
And that is what we lost in this damn war. Before it Saddam killed people to keep Iraq stable. Now the coalition does the same. Glorious new times !
Uh oh look out, Europe might actually end up policing Europe…
And I am happy with that. Still the fakt remains, that we supportet indirectly the US war effort. And if we discuss that way, then we have to talk about the position of te SACEUR, and why this has to be an American General/Admiral.
You didn’t answer my question. At any rate, a lot of those contracts that people are whining about? They were awarded in 2001 or earlier.
I don’t care about the old contracts. The fact remains, French, Russians und Chinese lost their rights, while those where given to H.
AurelUnless you consider the frequent shots taken at our aircraft while flying SOUTHERN WATCH and NORTHERN WATCH missions, of course. Missions performed under the UN banner. And there is the terrorism connection as well (no, Iraq didn’t launch 9/11, I mean that going to Iraq was sensible under the GWOT banner).
If I search I find multiple violations of the ceasefire from ’91. But as you wrote, those were units under UN banner.
You could also argue that it was our decision to finish the war the UN started in 1991. Or should the world be happy with Kofi Annan’s relatives profiting from Oil For Food and just leave Saddam be to murder his countrymen? On that note, if it’s okay for Saddam to do it, then by the same logic nobody should have interfered with the FRY.
Correct. It was your decision to restart combat activities. Not hat of the UN.
And don’t compare Iraq with FYR. In earlier operations full ground combat has always been the red line. Succes was granted because of an active civilwar in those respective countries.
Lemme guess, I bet you think Halliburton is just raking in the cash through their KBR contracts, right?
I just notice, that the Chinese, French and Russians lost their exploring rights, while a certain other company got those now. And that our soldiers take over duties formerly fullfilled by their US comrades in FRY. That we are more and more involved in Afganistan, while the situation becomes worse with every day. One wounded this morning. That German soldiers took over the guarding of US facilities in Germany. While at the same time dumbasses as Cheney and Rumsfeld gave their fellow countryman the advice not to buy european products. And while several thousend soldiers from Europe risk their life in damn deserts, for the “war on terror”, I have to read such comments:
^^well thats just how europe is. they complain too much and give nothing. they sit on their fat asses with taxes half of ours. they’re like little children, they don’t like being told what to do but don’t know what to do themselves. US allies are more towards east at the moment. Although eastern europe is weak compared to western europe i think they will grow in strength and thats a group of allies the US can ensure for some time.
AurelBUT QUESTION, our situation in Iraq and quite possibly upcoming in Syria and Iran as well as currently in Afghanistan says that we really need our allies. Some experts say that another 100,000 troops are needed. Why won’t they help us now.
I would like to remember you, that my country Germany, got 8.000 men an woman involved in operations in Afganistan and in Djibouti. That is at the moment everything we can provide. Don’t forget, we are heavily involved in the Balkans. Our resources are limited.
Then the the question for Iraq came up. We, amongst other, favoured further UN inspections. All we saw were funny scetches of Iraqi WMD’s. There was no hard evidence. None at all.
It was the decision of your Government to start a damn war. You were *not* attacked by them.
There was *no* consensus for that war. Your decision to start it on your own. So bring it to an end on your own.
An if you bring up Iran and Syria. Did they attack you ? For what reason do you want to attack them ? And are you willing to pay the price ?
Maybe there are some reasons to remove their respective Govenments. But don’t exepect other nations to accept dead civilians and soldiers on both sides, just because your Govenrment decides it’s worth it.
And by the way, experts stated from the beginning, that there where not enough soldiers deployed within the region. But your wise Government told everybody that this will become a pleasure trip.
Maybe you still think some forgotten artillery grenades from the war in the 80ies where worth the live of several thousend people.
Of course, *absolutely* no experts where predicting that development…
Finally, great work. After the elections we will see the Islamic Republik of Iraq. If you don’t accept this, the real fun begins. But, well, who could know this :rolleyes:
And to your original question: Most probably the US would provide airpower and special forces. Because of the Iraq-war, many US troops deployed there where replaced by European soldiers. Finally, we supported indirectly a war, that we rejected.
Great indeed, my taxmoney for halliburtons exploring rights in Iraq. 😡
AurelIt is interesting to compare this to the History of Typhoon/Rafale.
This time Dassault managed to get Partners, despite their demand for leadership.
Of course, in absence of “the other” european team.
The UK and Italy will get JSF to fulfill the strike role. Leaves only Germany with a more urgent demand to replace Tornadoes in different roles.
Lets wait and see, if Barrakuda is the answer or if the Neuron or whatever follows will be available soon enough.
I hope we will see the “common” solution. But, oh, that demand for leadership by Dassault… :p
AurelFirst, I want to express my excitement that something is moving on within Europe’s aircraft companies.
And this involves all those projects. Before those photos became public, I would have considered Saab as the leading company within Europe, considering UAV’s.
Who says that we won’t see next week pics from Warton.
Barrakuda may be big, but at the moment I still think Saab is a step ahead in autonomity. Here size doesn’t matter.
Add to this many european companies gained experience during the development of the Scalp/Taurus/Stormshadow.
Someone mentioned, EADS is no German company. I hope you don’t believe EADS is a European company. There is still a difference between EADS France, EADS Casa and EADS Germany.
If not 100% German, then the foreign Barrakuda parts are most probably American. Messerschmitt had once the partnership with Rockwell. Later this became the partnership between DASA and Nothrop Grumman. And today it is the partnership between Nothrop Grumman and EADS.
The reason for the Spanish flag are testflights in Spain. This has nothing to do with an involvement, or Spain leaving Neuron.
And finally I could quote some poster above me. Barrakuda and Neuron are different pair of shoes. Different timeframe and requirements.
But finally, there happens something. Hopefully we will soon see what BAe is developing at the moment. 🙂
AurelJust as a sidenote: At least the swedish Versions of the NH-90 got a higher cabin, as they asked for it.
AurelThe missile got halted/canned in Germany. It was a traded in for the approval of MEADS by the Green Party.
AurelOne out of two of my first kits where from Matchbox. Th other one was from Airfix. A Tornado F.3 from Airfix and a Czech MiG-29 from Matchbox. The Tornado was clumsy, but the MiG-29 remained for a long time my favourite one. I think I bought later on a CF-5B and an AH-1 from Matchbox. Today I stick to Revell. Maybe I will try the Trumpeter J-10, since I’m at the moment only interested in canard deltas.
Anyone got a source for a XB-70 Valkyrie in 1:72 scale ?
AurelThis thread convinces me that there will be no quick solution of the Kosovo problem. NATO intervened because of the horrible things that happened in Bosnia, not to help one side to win. It was done to stop hostilities.
Back to topic:
I really don’t think Serbia is threatened by a NATO-attack as long as it doesn’t attack anybody else.
Therefore I would rather invest in something as the Yak-130 or some Alpha Jets. Just to keep the expertise and do some airpolicing.
And some helicopters would be nice for SAR. I don’t see a problem in getting some donatet by Italy, France or Germany. (Not shiny new but at least for free)
And Garry, what do you talk about rolling over and so on ?
It is really difficult enough to find a compromise that suits both sides. It will take some time, but a modernized Serbia could as well as Slovenia and Croatia join the EU. (After this emotional charged problems over Bosnia and Kosovo are solved.)
There where many areas within Europe disputed over centuries. Now we have the EU, you can live on both side of the border, without any problems. Seems to be better to me then ethnic cleansing and fighting my neighbour because he is french or dutch. The only “wartimes” are now during a football-match.
AurelF-108 I would think. The early design with canards. The aerodynamical concept of a shockwaverider seems to be similar (if one could speak that serious about the Firefox). It was designed to escort the Mach 3 Valkyrie, so that the max speed should be at least as close as the MiG-25/31.
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