AurelIs this still an aviation forum ? I think my opinion about this ill-motivated anti-american posts are clear. And I was not the only one here to reject those stupid posts.
Now such a silly thread. You should be happy to live in a country that is able and willing to spend that much money on military aviation. Do such obviously stupid posts really touch you that much ? :p
AurelYou realize the F-100 is from Spain?
Didn’t they win a tender of the Oz’ Navy ?
the 70/80nm range u mention for SM-2 is for SM-2 block IV with the extra booster stage, which only the USN has. the european SM-2 ships have SM-2MR instead whose range is closer to 30/40nm. ESSM range is about 25nm.
Strange, found different data…
wikipedia
The Block IIIA has been acquired by the Bundesmarine.
another good thing abt Aster is it has active terminal radar homing like an AMRAAM. it does not require separate illumination radars (eg APAR, Mk99 for the burkes and F100) which SM-2 and ESSM need. this allows virtually unlimited simultaneous engagements. whereas burkes with 3 illuminators can only handle up to 3 SM-2s/ESSMs in terminal homing stage. so advantages in this area are twofold:
O.k., this is indeed a big advantage. Do you know how many missiles the APAR can simultanously illuminade ?
AurelFor those who try to make jokes about this crash: This december was awful enough in regard of crashed military aircraft. Is it to much to wait, till more about the condition of the ejected pilot is known ? Maybe he is badly injured.
😡
AurelWhat about the L-159 ? The Czechs seem to have more then they actually need. Proven airframe, nice avionics and shurely damn cheap to buy. Shure the Yak would offer better performance…
AurelIf you’re going to have clean fighters flying behind loaded up UCAVs, what’s the point of having the fighter?
I wrote nearly clean. I had 4 medium/longrange AAM’s and 2 shortrange AAM’s in mind. I.g. standard a2a loadout wihout external fueltanks, instead CFT’s.
AurelWhat’s the point of having these big UCAVs? One of the pictures shows a UCAV over an airfield with lots of explosions in the background, but I’d think it would be just as vulnerable as a fighter in those circumstances and be quickly shot down.
These UACV’s will be the ‘outsourced’ internal weapon’s bays of the European fighters. They will be forward launchers for weapons, as well as additional sensor platforms.
The fighters itself will fly in nearly clean configurations, so they have significantly reduced radar signatures. There was talk about semi-recessed rocket-carriage for the Rafale, to further reduce signature. The Typhoon already got this feature. Add CFT’s and subtract external fuel tanks, and both, Typhoon as well as Rafale would be pretty stealthy. For shure not as much as the Raptor, but considerably better then any F-16/60 or Su-30MKI.
With their size, they should have sufficient payload and range, and with their autonomy, they will be less vulnarable to ECM, and will of course emit less then a remote controlled vehicle.
AurelThe last posts cover nearly everything I know, too.
The highfrequency radios build by EADS (formerly Siemens), and the leadership of the U.S. Navy. The U.S. even got an enhanced MIDS under development. It is not called MIDS-LVT, it got a different shortcut at the end. LVT means low volume terminal, so I would gues the other part would be the high volume terminal. It is intended for large ships and command and control assets as AWACS, which need more bandwith.
Additional, the US are fielding a downgraded MIDS, for their F-15 (MIDS-FDL)
The French have contributed an component to be carried in aircraft, too. But I don’t remember what it exactly was.
Found something about the history of the programme:
MIDS history
Additonally, some hints about the workshare:
shopping list
So, Thompson had something to do with the EMD hardening of the systems, while BAe Systems had it’s share in the softwaredevelopment.
AurelHi Aias,
judging by the weapon, I would think this was no head on head situation. Even with a capable radar, you have the need for identifying the potential enemy. Sometimes it is not clever to use IFF if your adversary is not aware of your approach. So, well trained eyes are still important today.
AurelCompare the Phantom with any new Generation jet. They got better climb and acceleration rates. Even with exactly the same avionics and weapons, the airframe with the better performance will be able to fire it’s weapons at a higher speed and from higher altitude, which translate in higher weapon’s range.
AurelSorry mate! MIDS is Dassault answer to Link 16 and if anytrhing, EADS had little to do with its developmement, Thales might have. This is an 100% French venture and thinking of it, why would Dassault try to get any form of dependency on the US industry while developing a concurent product for them? Be serious. MIDS and Link 16 are two different systems, Link 16 was criticised for low banwith output and MIDS is designed to adress this.
For your 100% French venture, I would like to invite you to visit the site of the U.S. Department of Defense.
Some small snippets:
MIDS customers include the European EF2000, the French RAFALE, and the U.S. F/A-18, F-16 and F-15
MIDSCO Inc. is a U.S. chartered, international joint venture corporation located in Fairfield, N.J. MIDSCO’s multinational management and technical staff is composed of professionals from its five member companies, which include ENOSA, GEC-Marconi Hazeltine, MID SpA (formerly Italtel), Siemens and Thomson-CSF.
Production maybe to 100% French, I would guess. Development was not.
Regarding the Drohnes, I totally agree with you.
AurelFonk, before you get to excited about the Rafale, please realize that MIDS is an American system, with strong enolvement of EADS. Glitter is right, France is lacking in in this field. Only by integrating a foreign system you won’t master the system itself.
With Svedish help, this gap could be closed. In my opinion, TILDS is the better system. Link 16 (Standardization Agreement STANAG 5516) is already obsolete, even combined with link 22 (STANAG 5522), it is pretty limited in comparison to TILDS.
AurelWell, there is a difference between this MIDS/link 16 and the Swedish TILDS.
Where the MIDS was designed for as many paticipants as possible, the amount of information that can be shared is pretty limited.
TILDS is the other way around. Here the number of participants is restricted, but therefore more data can be shared. That seems to fit very well for such small formations consisting of a fighter and it’s UAV’s.
All this talk about sensorfusion can be only realised with that higher data transfer rates. By the way, I think the Swedish were the first to propose UAV-leaders.
Especially since there doubleseater Gripen was never intended as trainer, but instead as coordinator and leader of small formations, it seems the logical next step.
The doubleseater got no elevated backseat and such trainer related stuff…
AurelWell, now we know that Rafale will get an addtional datalink for coordinating and communication with the UAV’s. I would guess this is were the Swedish knowledge and experience with TILDS comes into play.
Still nothing about the UAV itself. 😎
Would be nice to know something about the requirements.
AurelI don’t know. I could just speculate.
Fact is, at the moment only Spain and Italy will operate both, Typhoon and Neuron.
EADS got it’s loose partnership with Nothrop-Grumman. They are pushing for an order of Eurohawks, ->shorter endurance and topspeed, more payload in comparison to Globalhawk. (To replace the ELINT Atlantiques of the Marineflieger).
Then they got this EuroMALE thingy, which is somehow larger, and EADS is offering this as surveillance platform, I guess as replacement for the RECCE-Tornadoes. That would leave the replacement of the ECR-Toradoes. If I got this right, then therefore an armed EuroMale/Predator should have been offered to Germany.
BUT: All EuroMale flying systems are build by Dassault, the electronics by Sagem and Thales. EADS got only the overall management. Now that Sagem wone the British Watchkeeper contract, they feel they should take over the overall management in EuroMale, too. To complicate things, Sagem’s CEO declares the strategic system Euromale is waste of money, and proposes smaller tactical drohnes as it’s own companies Sperwer drohne instead.
Now comes Mike Turner, head of BAe Systems.They had some negotiations ongoing with US based companies. Aim was a deal comparable to the EADS license of the Global Hawk.
Unfortunately, those negotiations were not that succesfull. He is now eying a partnership in Neuron, too.
The only thing that is for shure, is that Dassault will lead the Neuron programme, no partnerships on equal levels are intended.
My conclusion is, that the Neuron will be compatible with many aircraft
via link 16., maybe later link 32. But on the maintenance side, it will shurely have more in common with the Rafale.
Interesting would be to know, what requirements are formulated for the Neuron. Topspeed, range, payload,….
The engine question is the most decisive. If both, EJ-2XX and M-88-X, would be out of question for the propulsion due to the requirements, then the Neuron would mean no major advantage for one design. Otherwise…
And with Dassault responisble for overall design… which engine would they prefer ? :rolleyes:
AurelShort summary and cg of neuron
It has to be. There is no other UACV project. Read in an other forum (thanks to google), that last weak a short animation was shown on french TV, where a Rafale was accompanied by 3 Neurons.
The deal between EADS and Dassault looks as following. EADS is prime contractor for the EuroMALE, which will become the primary monitoring drohne in Europe, with Dassault and Sagem as subcontractors. Its airframe will be no new design, it will resemble an Israeli design. (of course they get some money). Only the electronics will be made by EADS and Sagem/Dassault.
Now the second part of the deal. Dassault is prime contractor for the Neuron. EADS is responsible to get Germany and Spain to contribute to the programme. Alenia (Italy) HAL(Greece) and Saab(Sweden) already are partners. Saab as largest partner has a 30 % share.
At the moment only Spain is interested in joining the programme.
Neuron will be a complete new design. Dassault is responsible for the airframe design, the flight control system and building of prototypes.
2007/2008 a development airframe should be completed.
So the Neuron will not only be the “external weapons bay” of the Rafale doubleseaters, it will be the same for the Gripens.
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