Well it is debateable I will give you that but who built it? If you consider the EAP to be the flying TKF90, who built it? The Germans didn’t.

You are unfortunately completely right. German politicians don’t think in large categories. Today it’s the same. The British have FOAS and our politicians don’t even realize that we need a replacement for our Tornados. EADS has some internal concepts, but not even as advanced as the Mako… Hopefully BAe gets the contract to bring this concept into production. Would be nice to have some european opportunity when our German politicians wake up. But on the other hand I think we will need no replacements. Since 1990 Luftwaffe has lost 50 % of it’s numerous strenght. With this in mind, I think we will loose all relieving Tornado-squadrons, too. Without any replacement. So we will have three Typhoon squadrons asigned for A/A and two for A/G.
So Luftwaffe can concentrate on Typhoon, as the only Jetfighter in service. This should lead to quicker decisions, because upgrade-programmes don’t have to pass the parliament. (That is why Rühe ordered Typhoon without weapons-> lower price, happy opposition). This should help to keep Typhoon up to date.

The F-18E/F may be 4th gen but it doesnt have the A2A power to back it up.

The new late Blk 60 F-16 is new and is superior to the F-18E/F in all areas except it cant do carriers.

I don’t see where it is much better. Both have good radars, capable of tracking multiple targets. Both use AMRAAM as BVR-missile. Both depend on AWACS. The g-limits of the F-18 and it’s manouverability are not really outstanding, but therfore it should have a lower RCS. And if you believe in LM, the lower RCS is more important. And what has the blk60 as operational g-limit, when packed with bombs and fuel ? In clean configuration, the F-16 is shurely better for airshows, but in real life ?
Nethertheless It would be interesting see the results of an simulated combat in A/A configuration. The better acceleration and top speed, as well as highspeed turning rates may give here the advantage of the higher missile-range.
Comparing blk60 with Mirage 2000-5 would be intersting, too. Maybe we can get such info soon from the UAE.

It is ‘mostly’ British.

You are right if you refer to internal systems (Engines, Radar). But the shape and aerodynamical layout is to 90% TKF 90. Maybe that is why some of you rate it lower than other modern fighters…

…..and there are….like….hundreds of F22s in service right now? Or will be in the next 12 months? Your argument makes very little sense.

I don’t think the F-22 is the reference for Rafale and Typhoon.
The only new american 4+ generation aircraft is the F-18E/F…
Considering this, I really like our “late” birds, even if I like the F-18E more than most here in this forum.

And what where the alternatives ? Building such a buggy plane like the Japanese ?

Much more intersting to me is the next step for some european air forces. What will follow on the Tornado ? Only the British seem to realize, that the Typhoon is not in the same class as a Su-34…:(

i recall that jsf is far to be finished, expect more growing weight!

Maybe, but if there is no official limit, so there is no official problem. What LM does internally, is nothing that causes problems to the whole programme. There is plenty of time to solve those problems. They are nothing compared to that of the Raptor. And there is no doubt, that the Raptors will be delivered.
If the JSF is a bit heavier, well no problem. It won’t effect it’s unique advantage: stealth. For export costumers stealth and price is important. It is shurely no problem to use better materials to make it lighter. The engineers could do, but then the envisaged price would rise dramatically, that would effect exports more than some extra weight.

I thought i read some where that EADS was going to upgrade the Polish mig-29’s for them to make them NATO compatible, supposed to have different engines avionics and certain other bits and bobs.

Sorry, thats not what I head in mind. I read they have negotiations with the Russians about 29M2 Or 29SMT.
They would be much better for this operating from streets thing than their new F-16’s. As I wrote before, Polish comrades seemed to prefer Gripen, for this very reason…

And that’s what the problem is…you have some Europeans lamenting on their “technology” while others crying foul to satisfy their egos…

Too bad, same of those europeans seem to be generals of the Polish Airforce.:rolleyes:

Call me cynical if you want for asking this, but will this badly affect Aero Vodochody? Since Aero Vodochody is partially owned by Boeing is there any risk the US government “asks” Boeing to re-evaluate its share? After all, the government has asked for favours in the past, largely ignoring the Paris Air Show for instance.

The last helicopter deal (where Boing was involved) lead to 760mil Czech Krones MINUS for them.
If deals with the Americans work always this way, they can be happy to loose those partners. By the way: They produce parts for Gripen. I think the airbrakes are manufactored by them.
@distiller
They lease them. So this is equal to the F-16 offer. If they like to buy JSF in ten years, then they can do. It is still an interim solution. And the better one.

Or an F414, since it already uses the F404. That might be a cheaper and quicker alternative to integrate.

The problem I see with F-414 is the weight. It is 200kg heavier than EJ-200 and 165 heavier than F-404. Since it is longer, too, it would influence the center of gravity more than EJ-200.
I got no numbers for airflow[kg/s] for F-414 but that of EJ-200 is lower than that of the F-404, what means they could use EJ-220 instead without changes on the intake-dimensions.
And this political thing, you know…