F35bI’m not out of date about typhoon. Currently there are none deployed carrying a selection of air to ground weapons. Yes there are tests underway to bring Paveway IV, brimstone and storm shadow but these are not ready or nearly completed. Then the training of the pilots to drop said weapons. then there will need to be extra squadrons brought into service, extra pilots trained, lots of training on how to use the munitions and only then when all of this has been met will the typhoon be a viable strike aircraft. The squadrons need to have the capability to deploy to an airbase outside the UK and take all the equipment required for this mission. Current RAF plans are to use the tornado till out of service date and pray they have enough typhoons capable of performing the same mission as the tornado, jaguar and harrier. Currently there are 107 tornado GR4’s in service and from this they have been struggling to keep 24 on active duty. Now I’m not saying that more couldn’t be brought to active duty but this will require massive financial investment and time. The RAF is a shadow of its former self and it’s not likely to get any better.
This is why I would back some kind of cheaper aircraft that is not so maintenance intensive and costly. Any aircraft flying is better than saying I’ve got some parked in a shed give me 2 years and a billion pounds and i can get them ready for battle
F35bThere will be some reason this example is flying not that the public will find out. I always thought they got retired a bit early. I don’t know what it’s stealth abilities are, I suppose it’s only rival in this department would be the B-2 and the F-22 to a lesser extant
F35bMy radar seeker is getting big return signal from some of the female pilots???. I would put my boom into their fuel receptical any day of the week???
More seriously if the women can tly as good or better than their male colleagues good for them.
F35bSomeone mentioned having two sensor turrets on UAV’s would be good so I bring you Watchkeeper currently flown by the British army http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thales_Watchkeeper_WK450
The arguement over what aurcraft is an interesting one. For most members they only have the choice of 1 aircraft which for some countries is F-16, Canada is F-18, France is Mirage 2000 or rafale and UK is tornado GR4. Typhoon is pretty useless as all it can carry is Paveway II or dumb bombs. In a few years it should get more weapon integration, hopefully all weapons available. Only Amerixa has the platform numbers available to allow them to pick from. UAV’s has to be a big part of the future for European airforces as this will give numbers required and the loiter range/time. I imagine the apaches that are being used by the U.S. will no doubt need to be based closer than the jets. For UK this is an area they could help in. HMS Ocean us out of refit, the westland Apaches are built marinised, they can fit over 12 on the boat as well as merlins and sea king awacs and hundreds of Royal Marines and some royal marine seaking commando and Lynx helicopters.
With the battle so close to Turkey maybe they might give basing rights soon. I think most consider putting aircraft in Iraq right now. Obviously you need the 100’s of support crew, base protection, re supply etc etc
F35bThe brimstone availability is a problem. I don’t know how much integration costs are for different aircraft. I would say it’s worth it but that’s my opinion. Hellfire would do for other aircraft and also maverick is a choice. I thought maverick is getting long in the tooth for some airforces and I belive there are large stocks available. Even TOW from helicopters would be adequate. The equipment of IS is difficult to know so I go with what weapons Iraq and Syria have and guess they have them. The do have antiaircraft guns as I’ve seen them on the tv. I would think any missiles apart from shoulder launched SAMs will not be in use.
Syria is more difficult to access what is there as there are lots of different groups including the government with its weapons. I have wondered what route aircraft flying from RAF akitori take to get into Iraq especially given the need for voyager tanker aircraft to do the air to air refuelling. I imagine they go through Turkey and the voyager is doing circuits over there. Jordan is quite far down to go around and raf strikes have been in the north.
If I was buying some aircraft from new I would have a cheap jet perhaps gripen or the Textron scorpion or a jet trainer light Attack aircraft. The key issue I see is range and loiter time, to eliminate the need for air to air tankers.
A combination of UAV/UCAV’s are essential to the surveillance part of the mission. Perhaps BAE mantis or predator is required. I like Mantis as its autonomous so just tell it go up and fly around a scanning large areas for 24 hours looking for movements and enemy vehicles. Persistent surveillance is required to have a constant picture of the enemy and hopefully when they are wiped out to stop them coming back. This backed up with a subsonic cheap aircraft fitted with a few missiles and precision bombs will keep the enemy away and prevent them from coming back. Keeping some Attack helicopters (most likely apaches if it’s a western airforce or Mil-24/35 if it’s the Iraqis themselves.) This is a long term strategy and will hopefully be viable once the F-15,16,18,22’s and tornado’s, rafale’s and B1’s are finished doing the main destroying.
Getting into the recon side it once again is showing huge assest the ASTOR Sentinel is. This cannot get scrapped 2015 it is used in every area even 1 has been in Nigeria. Their are claims a Britan Norman defender can do some of missions of Astor and if when fitted with the correct equipment and that’s great if true. It won’t have the 42,000 feet flying altitude but again cost is key. RC-135 are used aswell but what they do I don’t know. The future crowsnest based on a merlin helicopter will give surveillance and control if it contains the same abilities as the seaking asacs-7. Again I’ve only heard they are good for monitoring and don’t know what aspects or abilities they have. A UAV should hopefully do the same mission but with longer flying time and an armed variant would also be extremely useful. Giving 24 hours in the sky non stop is ideal to keep enemy’s at bay.
I’m using my phone and can’t seem to find the option to post up pictures.
F35bI forgot to add perhaps the most critical part of this which is cost. The need to purchase decent missiles and bombs and have the recon pods and the communication abilities with other aircraft and ground designators. The main cost from role of providing air support for over Iraq and Syria will be cost per hour flying time. The aircraft are going to be there for years.
F35bI thought it only carried 2 underwing tanks but I’m wrong. Can this centre line tank only be a 1000 litre tank or does the 2000 litre tank fit. Am I correct in that the 1000 are supersonic tanks and the 2000 are sub sonic
F35bSaw this picture on defence news website. Is it cgi because I don’t know any pod like this of the centre line of a German typhoon. Any ideas??http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/157562/germany-suspends-eurofighter-deliveries-over-manufacturing-fault.html#
F35bAs I see it if only the T-50 can meet the spec required no other company will apply. The aircraft will have the role of training pilots for all Fighters for next 40 years and have to be good at it if no 2 seaters r to be made for f-35 etc. This will come down more to cockpit arrangement and ability to simulate fighters on screens, layout etc and simulators. If companies r devoted enough both hawk and 346 can have much more powerful engines, structural upgrade and everything to make it cants sic overpriced dream machine but this is pointless. With the huge squeeze on budgets in the usa and the foreseen abilities of simulators in 2020 and for many years the trainer will be in service. I think with so many big expensive ticket items the USAF are buying or wanting to buy something has to give. Buying a cheap capable trainer or sacrificing another program or say 400 less f-35 will sway decision towards price. Who ever wins the aircraft will have a large amount of American kit in it and final assembly in USA with as many parts as possible from usa suppliers to get as many members of US congress etc on board. Also possibly see a we by trainers from u u buy equipment from us deal. Hopefully we see the best aircraft in every respect on and off the ground with the best deal for pilots and tax payers
F35bSo not many people fancy the hawks chances of success? I don’t no as I’ve not read what they want from the trainer. I think for all the advantages each aircraft has over the other one it will go the same way as every other USAF competition. The one with the most supporters and American parts will win as each trainer can do a good training job. The hawk is could be made cheap and the Americans can put what ever bells an whistles they want on it but it will most likely be the m346 or koreas entry that wins. I’ve heard supersonic training isn’t really important in training as hardly any part of a real mission is flown at this speed. All trainers in the competition can go supersonic In a shallow dive. The most important part in my eyes is which aircraft prepares pilots for current an 5th generation fighters and who can provide the best simulators, support etc
Will the trainer be used for any kind of weapon training?
F35bIf we take it 2 merlins will be replacements it will be interesting which model gets bought? The CSAR version looks good and other countries operate it. I would like the navy sub hunting version but the extra cost probably prohibits this unless they come from current navy stocks. I still like the wildcat but need to see lift numbers 1st etc. the fact it can deploy on the falkland patrol ship and any passing frigate/destroyer. if a long range MPA was to be placed down there there could be any long range helicopter there hopefully cheap. A ship/sub tracking ship with the accompanying weapons would provide a valuable resource and let us keep an eye on south Atlantic
F35bSo is the general understanding we will not be seeing any attempt at a MPA aircraft until 2015. By that time the current new aircraft on offer will have matured and we will have decision on an airbus type and lots of countries will be looking at PC-3 Orion replacements. The American aircraft seem to have an ability to be in service through lots of decades which is something Europeans r now starting to achieve. A group of European countries together buying a MPA but without all there own bells and whistles but operated by each countries forces and updates put in together is one way to go. So long as cost is the number 1 priority instead of multi country final assembly lines pumping up costs.
When getting onto what service should operate it and how they constantly stab each other in the back and all end up losing my solution is this.
The army operate troops, engineers etc and helicopters as they do just now. My addition is the get helicopters from raf. Chinooks, pumas and have light transport planes, and smaller intel aircraft shadow etc and UAV’s UCAV’s that support troops.
RAF operate air defence fighters for uk and do large transport and air to air refuelling and VIP and personnel transport and perhaps longer range bomber missions if suitable aircraft is available, the specialised long range awacs, intel aircraft rivet joint etc. sentinel and other aircraft that is primarily for supporting troops an navy can come under RAF but primary mission is designated by navy, army. If not needed the rat can us it as they want
The Royal Navy gets fighters bombers for aircraft carriers and CAS aircraft land based or carrier capable. The have all helicopter they currently have and have MPA aircraft. The marines are expanded and keep there transport attack helicopters. They also either run the CAS aircraft with the navy or have soul responsibility and work very closely with the army. The share the UAV,s with the navy and army
Basically I summary the RAF shrinks to a fighter force protecting Uk with transport and support facilities. The navy takes over attack, has own fighter for e for carriers and expeditionary forces with primary mission of supporting troops and defending itself. Integrated with marines so fleet of CAS and transport helicopters and UCAV’s etc
The army gets an big air arm expansion from to include everything the need to operate in a battle environment. With been close to the Marines they can share resources and have the navy force to assist fly top cover etc
The reason the raf gets cut so much is when ever there trouble they take ages to do anything all the want to do is protect fancy aircraft and are better at having a force based in the UK. There role is air police and 1 squadron of fighters to be deployed overseas or escort transports at a moments notice. Support army and navy if required and operate long range aircraft for strategic targets. Requires long range UCAV. The funds this frees up boasts navy, army
There is never going to be a war in 100 miles from the uk so the long range power projection has to come from the navy, marines, and army
If this had been in place harriers would still be here and more helicopters would be available in afghan. Army, navy, marine priority is always to support troops as much as possible
This should probably be a new thread. Anyone else think that?
F35bI remember hearing the French offered some of the aircraft. I think they have spare airframes. Would have probably been a great idea if the French wanted to allow joint development of future upgrades. A cheap purpose built airframe built to operate in roughly the same environments. Have a joint training and maintainence centre and we have a good aircraft till funds are available for newer aircraft
F35bThe p-8 participated in joint warrior in April 2012 from Lossiemouth so hopefully the mod got a good look at it and some talks about how it performs etc. was the nimrod originally a new build or was it modified from existing comet 4 stocks?
I think it will sink in the uk need a replacement for nimrod when there is a maritime disaster or piper alpha situation with an oil rig. There is not really an aircraft in service bar e-3 that could loiter and direct rescue efforts. If I was in a situation at sea I could think of nothing better than seeing a aircraft search light dropping off life rafts and waiting for the rescue boat. The airbus will only be a good idea if someone else buys it. What are the other European countries doing for there replacements?
F35bAccording 2 wiki there r still 2 S-61 operating with a civilian company at mount pleasant. The merlin looks like the probable but I would for new builds. I think they get used a lot down there.
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