just so we are all perfectly clear in what i think, i quite like a bit of trolling and a rant or two from the 4th gen fans, who if wish fulfillment worked, the f-35 would be a bil each
other than the trolls, most accept that the price is falling, i really dont care what the early LRIM costs are, come 2014-18 when aussies are buying their planes is the only cost i care about, but in the mean time i’m happy to play your nonsense

even then if the trolls dreams do come true and final price of a f-35 is a $150 mil instead of 70-80mil on a “paid price to capability comparison”, it will still be cheap compared to a rafale or typhoon for 60-70 mil + 5 yr inflation
so anyway you want to cut it, as i see it aussies will buy 100 f-35’s

There are a few things that puzzle me at the present moment. Are the LRIP F-35’s that are being built and ordered just now the complete final aircraft? Do they have all the system and weapon integration done that is required for the final aircraft. Also are these aircraft built for combat service once they are finished the test program or do they require upgrades before that could happen. If the aircraft are being bought to just serve as test aircraft and perhaps training aircraft then that isn’t an issue. If they are going to need to have costly upgrades to bring them up to combat standard then that will need to be included in the price.
I Have alot of faith that the price of F-35 is going to drop significantly by the time mass production starts. (it has to) Hopefully it will go down to what is being quoted but i guess we will just have to wait and see. With the test program running just now we may see LM work out how to make the aircraft better and perhaps with modifications that will make it cheaper to produce.

With the Eurofighter and Rafale does anyone have any idea of how much the test aircraft cost to purchase? I imagine they cost more than the current production aircraft. But were they as capable as the current production aircraft or did they require expensive upgrades? There are so many variables it is nearly impossible to look into the future and get a price exactly correct.

Again getting a flyaway price is also difficult as of the packages the aircraft are sold in. Do we know exactly what a F-16 or eurofighter costs just now on it’s own. I don’t think so. With support packages, different equipment on aircraft, weapons bought with it, special requests etc etc. Even for eurofighter things like does the aircraft have PIRATE is it Tranche 1 or 2 or 3 what ECM does it have weapon integration all effect price.

Something i have considered is with the F35 is, are nearly all known weapons going to be integrated onto it as standard as has been said a few times or will the customer pay extra for each one they want. If i was a country that was planning on only using F35A or Air defence flying with 4 AMRAAMS and 2 sidewinders and possibly to external tanks i would not want to be buying an aircraft that programmed to work with Storm Shadow, maverick etc etc and needing to pay for a shared cost in that. I suspect the US are looking to get a complete monopoly on future weapon sales by only having there weapons working on the aircraft. (mind you they nearly have this anyway) Also take situations like Finland and their F18’s. They wanted land attack ability but the US refused. If buying F35 and this situation occurs will it only be a software hack away before a weapon can be put on? If i was Finland i would be pissed at the US for that insult.
IN the end the lesson is keep you own weapon development going even if it costs more as one day you may live to regret it. In the future you will go to fire the M-16 replacement and the magazine will drop out and it will start beeping and saying you are not allowed to fire at these people, please turn around and shoot the other way.

One final thing regarding the F35 is the airframes that have recently been purchased by other countries example UK 3 Netherlands 1-2 etc. Are these being used with the test program that the US is running just now (and seems to be struggling to stick to timescales) or are these for there own seperate test program’s, training, weapon integration etc?

The Uk response has been disappointing to say they least. If the RN had not suffered such bad cut backs there would have been a Frigate and most likely and RFA ship on Altlantic patrol North in the area ready to help immediatly. Last ships there were Fort Gourge which would of been perfect for diaster relief and one of the type 23’s. HOw long will it take Largs to get there. She doesn’t even have a hanger for goodness sake. Is one of the RFA’s going with here?

When it says domestic are we just talking about the hull being built in Turkey and then most likely fitted out with say AEGIS system and standard and sea sparrow missiles? It would be very interesting news if it was to be a domestic in hull building and the major and majority of systems. Turkey seems to have large armed forces so maybe the development costs are an investment due to the numbers built, other applications etc.
From looking at the current Turkish fleet and it’s AAW requirement on Wiki it appears these will be interesting ships. There is certainly a requirement for more than 4 ships as the Knox class and perry class and Meko require replacement. The dates these ships were brought into service is quite recent but these are mostly used ships so will maybe not last more than 20 years. I’m not sure of the utilization of these ships and how hard worked they are so they maybe will last longer.
One big question not just relating to the Turkish navy is will the US start to sell it Burke’s. This will be an interesting development and whether Turkey would meet it’s needs with some of these i don’t know. There is not to much on the AAW used market without requiring major system upgrade so Turkey is probably as well to put these systems on new domestic hulls rather than used ones(more perry’s for example)
Does anyone consider Turkey building AAW ships to be a big jump into the unknown or more a big step in a path of development.
One last consideration is the export potential these ships could hold for Turkey. Is there any?

I meant on different pylons. I’ve seen from memory a targeting pod on the front fusalege and a paveway next to it with brimstone launcher and 1000lb dumb bomb behind.
For the brimstone it’s like this

I can’t say this is just about to fly but you get the idea.

This is the text from this photo: 41 Squadron were out with a targeting pod and a single Brimstone. I would suspect it was a dual mode Brimstone as this was released for active service to the GR4 force earlier this year after trials with 41 Sqn. Operating as Rampage 41 it returned with the Brimstone later in the day.

I will find those pictures one day

How often do you think Japan uses it’s dedicated reconnaissance F-4’s? I’m not sure how many airforces still use dedicated aircraft for this role.
Does the Japanese F-4’s differ from other F-4 it operates? Seems like in the past some reconnaissance phantoms in service with other countries have had mod’s to make them go higher, faster etc. Are the Japanese recon F-4’s used for any other roles or just for taking pictures? Seems like a big cost and a big need to have a squadron or 2 of picture taking aircraft for a defencive island. But i know very little about japan so maybe someone can enlighten me.:o

R. Malaysian Navy 2nd. submarine Scorpene class

Second Scorpene sub here in June

The country’s second Scorpene submarine the KD Tun Abdul Razak is scheduled to arrive at the Sepanggar submarine base in June. The navy’s Submarine Commander First Admiral Mohammad Rosland Omar said the second submarine was undergoing its second phase of trials by the manufacturer Navatia in waters off Cartanega in Spain.

First sub.’KD Tunku Abdul Rahman’

These new subs like Scorpene and U212/214 look so sleek and so smooth. Is the design of subs really came along so much in the last 20 years or am i missing something. Do these not have rubber tiles on them and is this what gives them the slick look. I think when these subs are under water in silent running mode they must be really hard to detect. Makes you wonder if France, Spain and Germany have made sure that there own ships/Sonar’s are able to detect these subs seeing as they will sell them to nearly anyone. Are these going to be invisible or just look that way? Good on the malaysian navy for getting it’s first subs. Who could be there main enemy in that area of the world?

I’m no expert on Nuclear Power in warships so i’m not sure what size we are talking about here. Given the size and space that the current turbine’s Engine room would take up on the CVF that would surely be big enough to fit a couple of reactor’s in. Looking at the size of a submarine i don’t imagine the reactor’s are that big. In the film K-19 the reactor room seemed quite small. Mind you I wouldn’t want any of those types on my ship! The MOD must of looked at costings for oil versus nuclear and found that it was cheaper to run on oil throughout the service life versus nuclear? Mind you then again:rolleyes:
I know CVF is meant to be flexible and future proof but i’m not sure if the engines were as flexible as installing catapults for example. With the UK maybe going to buy commercial reactor’s for UK power stations possibly from Westinghouse or another US company a deal could probably be done if the same company made reactor’s for the US carriers. The UK has probably done in depth studies into reactor powered ships and carriers and the differences they would have from submarine reactors like PW1 and 2 for example so the same mistakes as France shouldn’t happen. I doubt we will ever see Nuclear power in CVF. Maybe in some future fantasy world where the UK had to have lots more carriers than 2 in service but not in the real world.
Lets just hope we get 2 CVF’s in service and not a couple of incomplete hulks dockside. Would be a nice view when driving over the forth road bridge though. Anyone been down that way or know of a good vantage point to see Rosyth for any progress recently. My grandad used to take my dad to see the Forth Road bridge during construction so hopefully there is somewhere to see CVF’s being built from. Any idea’s let me know.