According to you? That’s really credible.

And you don’t need to reply to anything, what I linked from youtube is proof that the Russian pilots and aircraft are 100% capable.

No its not, it proves that someone in Russia can use a camera and fly a plane.:rolleyes:

You are never going to be taken seriously here with nonsense like that.

A fleet of Oscar II, Akulas, Sierras is still pretty formidable is you ask me, sparing the SSBNs.

Again, how often do they go to sea and what is their operational readiness, how well are they maitained, etc etc…..

It’s a sea skimming supersonic missile. Sort of like the Moskit which the US seems to cry about so much.

Again, so what? Name a modern AShM that is not sea skimming.

Basically thats the route book takes, The decision to cancel skybolt was a political farce , a complete assasination of bomber command and lets not forget the scrapping of the promising TSR2 project………so that the deterrent could be handed over to the navy. and the UK does not now have an INDEPENDANT nuclear detterent, we are entirely dependent on the US, for our nuclear weapons. Thank so much for the info chaps,

How would Skybolt have not left the UK dependent on the US for its Nuclear deterrent?

TSR-2 could not have provided a viable system for this role, it was a theatre bomber and not a strategic bomber.

The navy was the best place for the nukes to be, The decision to procure Polaris and put the deterrent to sea was the right one.

Well what is your smile suppost to mean, I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong, or I mis read something, but I guess you Americans have:rolleyes:

I have no problem with people admitting they are wrong, it just amuses me when they take as long as you did.

No. I am questioning what is meant by best.
If you give Fiji the USN with all its resources, would Fiji be better off or would it be forced to use that force aggressively to take the resources it needs to maintain such a navy.
Would Japan be better off with the USN? Would any country in the world actually be better off with the USN as it stands today? If Russia would not be better off with 13 carrier groups then WTF is the point of calling what they do have second rate? It is like criticising a Farmer for using a tractor to pull a plow in a field when what he should be using is the best motor vehicle… whether than is a Porche or a Rolls Royce or a BMW or whatever.
The USN might be the perfect tool for the US, but unless the Russians have got world domination back on their minds competing directly with the USN is pointless because what they end up with will be of no use to them. Rather than building up their forces to take on the USN the would be better off deciding what they do need and building toward these goals. Sonar arrays to get US navy subs out of Russian territorial waters is a good start, and eventually when the money is available then satellites to monitor the sea near Russia would be a good step two, and then building new ships that can operate in blue water safely and efficiently will be step three.

Garry you have changed the rules to massage your ego. The point stands that the Russian Navy, as anything other than part of their nuclear Triad, would be toasted by the USN.

you are missing my point. its not just the bars per se. why not a zhuk msf? why not something else? of course its not easy, but it would provide a massive boost to chinese capability. but whenever possible, russia has restricted what it provides technologically to china- in my opinion there are 2 reasons for it:

– chinas lack of consideration for ipr when it comes to defense (eg the refleks ripoff 100/105mm round) which it then deploys extensively or even exports
– china being an increasingly powerful neighbour to a russia which is still struggling to rebuild its defence forces, economy and overall industry to what it needs be

these goodies were available. india in fact started its flanker evaluation at the same time as chinas, and got access to far more which made it plump for the best. otherwise it too would have been forced to manage with su-30 k’s or buy fewer mirage 2000-5’s. china could have always inducted its systems in blocks with later ones having the more sophisticated items.

thats the entire point. funny thing is that if i say the same as you have, the chinese posters like crobato will be all over me claiming china received no help in anything and abusing me. glad to have a rational debate instead of that. but even so, help on some projects is not equal to whole sale transfer of high end tech and codevelopment or joint production. simply put, i havent seen any item (such as the pak-fa) which is at the bleeding edge of what russia will induct, which is being developed with china as a partner.

if china got more access to top notch gear, it would change its procurement strategy to match. the reason why these solutions are stop gap because they are not good enough for the long term.

When did the first Bars equipped Flanker enter Indian service? There is a very distinct difference between being available for procurement and being available for development, in the same vain what was the status of Zhuk-MSF in that time period?;)

There is no evidence of China being restricted, Pakfa cooperation was reportedly offered to China.

Even without the embargo there would probably not be that greater shift in Chinese procurement policy, indigenisation and long term preperations would remain at the fore. The only shift might be a more western flavor but other than that there would likely be little difference. These solutions are stop gap for indigenous products, Su-27 for J-10 and ultimately J-11B, Su-30MK2 for JH-7A. China is pursuing long term industrial development and integration, the use of domestic systems where possible is the priority. Whilst capability is important domestication is in some respects more so.