In low intensity conflict there is no need to expend airframe life of $100m chopper which can easily be done by $20m with troop transport. such expensive systems like Mi-28N/Apache should be used on required basis. so two tier gunship force is required.

You obviously have no idea what a ‘low intensity conflict’ is I have already shown that the Apache is the best helo for the job it is doing. You have no evidence and clearly no practical experience.

Apache is not facing 21st century Manpads like Hind faced. So it moot point. your practically wasting airframe life hours on no existent threat. In real threat (integrated defence system).it wont survive anyway so whats the point of spending on it.

You are wrong, MANPADS have been used in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

LOL, that’s exactly what it means. You can take it down with an automatic rifle, that’s frickin ridiculous for something that you call *best in the world.

Again, armour protection for helicopters is not an absolute. I can assure you that for the rare occasion an Apache has suffered a mission kill there are many multiples of occasions on which the type has shown remarkable survivability.

You have not proven a single thing. You claim that Apache has superior sensors but you don’t know a thing about this topic. You have no idea what intensifier types are used, what kind of thermal FPA is used and what its technical specs are. You do not even know that a British Apache has a greatly inferior sensor fit compared to US model due to ITAR regulations. The whole *Apache is the best* analysis is based on blindful repeating of what they told you on Discovery Channel. Maybe enough to impress your neighbourhood but that is where it ends.

Poor flex, cant provide any proof so he gets all offensive and starts lying. I never said it had the best sensors in the world. It is the combiation of systems that makes the Apache unmatched

Nobody needs MANPADS for AH-64, few bursts from an AK and the thing goes down. BTW, in Afghanistan or Iraq the Apache is most likely to encounter an RPG-7, MANPADS is pretty expensive. I’d rather depend on ability to withstand damage than on some hypothetically effective defensive aids suite.

A) Afghanistan is not the only war in which the type will ever fight
b) The british have made use of the system in Afghanistan and the Dutch are considering installing it.
c) Your first comment is ridiculous.

With only six T-45 being constructed………….Its very likely that only two would be available to protect one CVF! Is that adequate for such a high value asset….:confused:

Depends on what you are doing with it. The RN is not preparing to fight anyone with a truly high quality sophisticated AShM system. The CVF’s in their current form are not naval combat ships in the sense that the CVA-01 was meant to be, they basically just floating platforms for airpower.

Once again we get back to the point that is so often ignored here. Navies are not universal, either by time or by place. They come from the paticular circumstances around them. UK foreign and security policy does not foresee a major conventional threat and thus there is no need to surround the carriers with very expensive AAW destroyers.

The exact same issue came up when it was announced that South Africa was after a a flat topped amphib, people here asked ‘but what will escort it?’ Escort it against what?…..or have I missed hordes of Brahmos armed Flankers, submarines and missile armed fast attack craft on the African continent?

:confused: Can you even read? :confused:

I have never said that there is a helicopter with better netcentric or C4I capability. There probably isn’t because noone needs one like that. I have said and I say it again that Apache does not possess either superior weapons or superior sensors. It does not offer superior performance or superior survivalability. It is a mediocre combat chopper with reasonably good sensor fit and below average survivalability with the price tag being completely out of this world.

And you are right, there is no such helicopter. Stuffing a flawed airframe with another $20mil worth of next to useless electronics is something noone else does. 😎

How is the airframe flawed, can the aircraft not fly?:rolleyes:

The Apache posess a fusion of protection, sensors and offensive capability tha no other in production attack helicopter can match today……period.

Mil Mi35?, i know you will say “impossible that old junk!?”, but the mil in some ways is better than the apache, for example their weapons are not so succeptible to been jammed as the hellfires..remember hellfires are guided by laser, laser can be jammed by smoke the original idea of the helfires was to been guided with TV, it failed, so they moved to the unreliable laser, the AT-9’s are guided by radar

In first place, a combat helo must have some transport room,denieng the advantages of an helo as transport is overlooking the main feautre of the helo itself, an a-10/su-25 can kill tanks better than an AH-64, and f-16’s/mig-27’s can do better strike missions than the apache/mi-28, hovering and patrolling an area over a possible danger becomes in a trap for helos, since they are completelly uneffective against infantry, the only answer against infantry is, well…infantry, specially in difficult zones. Is perhaps because of that the russian army found their mi-24 much better than ka-50’s or mi-28’s.

An helo must be a “dirty job” machine, ready for the service, without a lot of dependence of mainteinance, so in that field the 24 would be better

I dont know about the safety/protection levels of the mi-24 ah-64, but the AH-64 does not seems a lot safer, there are cases of Apaches downed by small gun fire, and for example the electronics are suited in places that just scream “shot at me”, without any kind of protection (im talking about the electronic boards, not the optictronics)

Im not saying the AH-64 is better than the Hind , or the Hind is better than the 64, but i agree , the 64 has a lot of overkill capacity

BTW, can machineguns be mounted on the Hind doors?

Again, where is the combination of systems that go into the Apache, not there is the answer. Try reading the thread next time.

Good to see that the IMF loan is being spent well.