lmisbtnEverywhere I look I find the same discussions about schräge musik, some saying they thought/suspected something was up, many noting the lack of any official action and drawing the same conclusion – it just wasn’t recognised.
I have to say if it were it would be a damning indictment on the heirarchy, press on regardless and all that sort of stuff.
Here we have a short piece including an interview with a Bomber Command pilot discussing the effectiveness of the corkscrew vs the earlier “from behind” night fighter stalking technique, but then saying that once schräge musik came on the scene there wasn’t much that could be done. By no means does this imply he did or didn’t know about it beforehand BTW. Interesting though.
I don’t know whether or not the authorities knew about SM or not but ‘Press on Regardless’ was the order of the day for the government and forces.
It’s the same principal that sent numerous T-34 and Sherman crews to their doom… surely, they knew all about the advantages of very thick sloping armour but still sent the poor sods nosing down the lanes of Normandy to hunt Tigers in Tommy Cookers?
Same with the present regime too (just less of an excuse for it), give ’em equipment of a quality & quantity just barely adequate to do the job – but only at a high human cost.
Perhaps they knew about SM but I’d say it was ‘needs must’ during WWII (with many projects competing for physical and scientific resources) and that human cost came a distant second to numbers (bombs on target). Either way, the powers that be had some pretty thankless decisions to make…
Vis-a-vis the perspex tube under the nose – could it’s primary purpose have been for a visual inspection of the lower airframe/undercarriage??
lmisbtnSince the V-Bombers were designed from the outset to carry nuclear weapons the capability to land with a full bombload and a decent reserve of fuel was surely designed-in from the start! :diablo:
Surely nuclear weapons carry a relatively small amount of conventional explosive? Making a landing relatively safe.
Would not landing with a full complement of conventional iron bombs be a lot less desirable?
(plus weren’t they WW II vintage stock? Old and perhaps less stable – sorry been a while since I read the book).
What if there had been a catastrophic landing accident at Ascension knocking out the runway until further notice – end of the line for Corporate? Or enter the American flat-tops?
(ps: I talk with absolutely no authority on this subject – and, as I say it’s been a while since I read the book so any dumbness in the above questions is entirely mine 🙂 )
lmisbtnUntil I was actually sitting on one I was completely unaware of the existence of the Embraer 190 (realise it’s not a historic type).
When I was walking across the tarmac towards it I was completely non-plussed but convinced myself it was some new secret Russki Tupolev short-hauler till I picked up the safety card and was enlightened.
When I was a kid I spent my life trawling through my Dad’s aviation mags (Air Pic, Air International etc…) so nothing much of a historical nature was completely unknown to me but spend a lot less time looking at mags now.
The other planes of which I was blissfully unaware were the Russki Ekranoplanes but I’m blaming the iron curtain for that…
lmisbtnAs far as I know there were no windows painted black in the nose. The small windows along the fuselage were painted black before eventually being deleted in the produiction line
Peter/anyone
Just out of curiosity, what purpose was originally envisaged for the small rows of rear windows?
They don’t seem much cop for observing and I assume they were non-functional – so no good for defensive weaponry.
Cheers
Seb
lmisbtnI had the fourth best experience of my life wandering around there in 1976. It just wasn’t long enough and I wish they could have locked me in for the weekend. It was mind blowing coming face to face with the Horten Ho. 229 among others of which I had only ever seen fuzzy black and white pictures in magazines. Have they restored it yet?
Was lucky enough to visit there in September (and the NASM on the National Mall, and Intrepid in NY – what a holiday ;)).
The Horten is still in pieces in the restoration area although the Uhu is approaching completion (the fuselage and engine nacelles were on the display floor).
I echo the comments on this thread. It’s a breath-taking museum – so many unique exhibits.
I too had limited time at all three locations so concentrated on the things I really wanted to see… Enola Gay, the pre-war USN & USAAC planes, Earheart’s Vega, the Hughes racer, the Stratoliner, USN & Japanese WWII stuff – basically the things you won’t find anywhere else. Didn’t even scratch the surface of the space exhibits.
lmisbtnBeaufighter was less prone to break up when ditching – a feature appreciated by Coastal Command crews.
I thought the Beau was known for it’s undesirable ditching characteristics, to the point of having a poem written about it…
lmisbtnWhat a hell of a story! And Michael Parkinson gets a knighthood for talking! Where’s the sense in that??
Rumour has it that Captain Brown turned down an honour on at least one occasion.
lmisbtnInteresting background about US ships and pilots here: http://www.hampshireairfields.co.uk/airfields/los2.html
The battleships were there to bombard targets on land. Aircraft were used as artillery spotters but I don’t think they used their own Kingfishers, instead the USN borrowed some Spitfires for the invasion period.
Edit
Model Aircraft Monthly Feb 2007
‘Spotting for Uncle Sam ‘The US Navy’s Spitfires at D-Day’ Andrew Thomas describes the little-known use of Spitfires in the US Navy!
“During the planning of ‘Operation Overlord’ it was intended that a major element of the initial fire support to the landing forces on the days immediately following D-Day would be provided by naval bombardment from Allied battleships and cruisers sitting off the Normandy coast. The gunfire support spotting was clearly seen as a Naval task, so several Fleet Air Arm squadrons, as well as a number of RAF units, were specially trained and formed the Air Spotting Pool’ This Pool also had another, somewhat unusual, squadron – a spotting unit of the US Navy. Most major US Navy warships embarked catapult seaplanes for spotting duties, but it was recognised that over Normandy the possibility of enemy fighter opposition meant the current embarked types, the Curtiss SOC Seagull and Vought OS2U Kingfisher floatplanes, would be highly vulnerable. lt was therefore agreed that Britain would loan the US Navy sufficient Spitfires for a spotting squadron and so Cruiser Scouting Squadron 7, (abbreviated as VCS-7), came to fly the only Spitfires ever operated by the USN, albeit in British markings.”
Thanks Consul & Antoni – very interesting!
lmisbtnI came across a photo of a Vought Kingfisher (purportedly taken on D-day – operating from a US Battleship and looking very incongruous in it’s deep blue Pacific plumage) – no stripes.
Firstly I was ignorant of the involvement of US battleships on 6th June and secondly I was struck that those floatplanes were in exactly the right place to need the reassurance of the stripes but didn’t have them… anyone know why?
USN marching to it’s own drum? Ignorance of the decree? It would be interesting to know more about what, if anything they did on D-Day.
lmisbtnI was thinking the same. Ilyushin?
Antonov 8 by the look of it – akin to the AN-12 but twin engined looking at one of the photos on that link.
lmisbtnHMS Sheffield was neither dumb nor blind. Her automatic defenses were not triggered because the IFF system accepted the missile’s parameters and thought it was a friendly object.
I thought Sheffield was lost because the ship was using it’s SATCOM equipment at the time of the attack – this interfering with the defensive radars of the ship basically leaving it defenseless.
Glasgow had detected the raid and was broadcasting the ‘Handbrake’ alert to the fleet – a warning that was not overly heeded on Hermes as there had been a number of false alarms during the day and they were keen not to expend the fleet’s reserves of chaff.
As far as I recall (currently reading One Hundred Days by Sandy Woodward so it’s fairly fresh in my mind) the first thing Sheffield knew about the attack was when the missile was sighted by lookouts seconds before impact – sadly, way to late to do anything useful.
lmisbtnThinking of hopping over for this…. anyone know of a decent vantage point (North facing) for shooting this?
Planning on going to the vicinity of Pigeon House Road – just east of the East Link Bridge (20-30 mins walk from the city centre)
It’s roughly north-facing, the river is slightly wider here and (depending upon the altitude of the planes) you might get some nice shots with big liners/ferries/docks in the foreground.
The Quays nearer town will probably be mobbed if it’s a nice day. Just look up Pigeon House Road on Google maps – there’s a strip of grass, then a road, then a pavement that front onto the river – granted it’s a busy road but all the quays are busy. You might get a bit of elbow room there (or maybe everyone will have had the same idea!!).
If you wanted to go a bit further east you could try South Wall (the south harbour wall of Dublin port) it juts out into the bay so unrestricted views eastward (Irish Sea) and Northward (towards Howth).
I’ll bring my camera but I’m no Charles E. Brown so I’m just hoping for good weather and a decent look at the Vulcan, Fort & 380 – it’s been decades since I saw the first two and I’ve never seen a 380 in the air.
lmisbtnWow, even I will drag myself a mile down the road for this! Vulcan!!!! Haven’t seen one in the air since the eighties!!
lmisbtnNX611 – now at East Kirkby – It was at Scampton, not Waddington.
Thanks Bruce – makes sense – my brother was based at Scampton at the time.
lmisbtnSlight thread creep – if the Scampton Lanc went to Hendon in ’72, which Lanc did I see on the gate at (I believe) Waddington circa 1980 and where is it now?
(got to have a clamber round inside – sadly, being 9 at the time, I was a bit too young to fully appreciate the experience)
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