dionisYou’re right, a Daring on it’s own couldn’t take those ships down at this moment, but the missiles fired against it would be useless, giving the rest of the fleet plenty of chances to sink the Russian ships. Putting a Daring up against those assets is not its primary purpose, its purpose is to keep the ships that will sink them safe from attack, which no other asset in the world can do as well.
Really? The Aster is 100% shot-kill probability?
Let’s come back to reality . . . please. . .
Even if this were true, this would not even neutralize half of the Russian heavy anti-ship weaponry, most of which is supersonic and would 1 shot obliterate everything except for the small carriers, which would still be mission killed.
On the other hand, you have the RN with MUCH shorter range, SUBSONIC Harpoons, which are going to be gobbled up by everything from the long range SAMS of the Slava and Kirov, so the massive short range defense systems of the all the ships operating together.
dionisNo its not as the list is accurate and dies not actual define activity. Lord Jim’s list is far closer to reality.
Yes, I am talking about Lord Jim’s list. It beats the hell out of anything the RN can put out, even lacking a few available assets like an extra Sierra II, and other things I can’t pick off the top of my head and I am not looking at his post again. . .
Hmmm that took some time! So an Udaloy outranges /out guns a Daring, amazing to think the worlds most a advanced warship is actual a pile of poo compared to some 70’s design from the soviet union. Again it just increadable to think that these fantasticaly powerfull units that easily outgun any other ships were never used in anger. As said earlier the northern fleet can bush aside all of NATO. Imagine what it could have done a quater century ago when the fleet was 3-4 times bigger and actually new(ish)
HMS Daring (without its anti-ship missiles?!) vs let’s see: Kirov, Kuznetsov, and Oscar IIs armed with Shipwrecks, the Slava with Vulkans/Sandboxes, yes – I wonder who is outgunned?
Then add in all of the Moskit carrying vessels, which can RELATIVELY easily fend off any Harpoon attack.
Yes, then you can add in the Udaloys, one of which is Moskit armed, the others which are basically large ASuW frigates . . .
Oh right, then we add in the large complement of nuclear and conventional attack subs. . .
dionisThis list is closer to the truth although it has its flaws, for a start the 3 Typhoons are now in reserve. What is the original source?
Yes, that list itself, of active units, is enough to make the RN look pretty mediocre in comparison.
dionisIt does not mean it is overhauled, simply that there is some sort of crew availbale for it. You need to stop looking at hull numbers and paper capabilities and start looking at sea days and availability.
Are you serious sealordlawrence? You are really just lying out of your rear end here. The assets that are active have been overhauled, or at least 90% of them, to some extent. Repairs have been going on steadily since around 2002!
The assets listed are the 100% operational ones.
If we included reserve/in-repair units you can add about a dozen Victor III boats to that list, Nakhimov, 2 more Sovs, 2 more Udaloys, more Kilos, and god knows that other smaller vessels that are roughly as well “armed” as all those RN Frigates that couldn’t scratch a well defended asset if their life depended on it.
dionisThere is no need for the US and UK to whine as they have to nothing to worry about from Russia, it is simply not a threat, or even that relevent on the world stage. China and India on the other hand…………..
Sealordlawrence on a new account I must assume? You should be banned again, your Rusophobia and delusion are unparalleled.
The whining is astounding? Have you not turned on the news for 3 days?!
They finally found 2 of the subs, and now they are crying about it! Wah wah! The evil Cold War Russkies are back! Mama! wahh! 😀
——–
Whilst completely ignoring the appalling level of availability that these assets have.
No, everything listed is overhauled and active.
The list of reserve and in-repair units of just the Northern Fleet makes the RN look like a green water navy.
dionisyes but which ships do you have that would trouble the RN????
That would be everything that Echo listed, considering all those assets outgun/outrange the RN’s offensive weapons systems to many degrees.
dionisThis is all available in the open source if you care to look for it.
Yes they are.
No, or we’d know about it too, from all of the whining from the US and the UK about it.
dionisThe followign units are currently shown as active with the Russian Northern Fleet;
Surface Units – 21
Cruisers/Carriers [3]
1 Kuznetsov CVN
1 Kirov CGN
1 Slava CG
Destroyers [5]
2 Sovremennyy DDG
2 Udaloy DDG
1 Udaloy II DDG
Frigates [0]
Corvettes [13]
4 Grisha II FFL
4 Grisha IV FFL
2 Nanuncka 1 FSG
2 Nanuncka III FSG
1 Nanuncka IV FSG
Submarines – 21
SSBN [7]
4 Delta IV SSBN
3 Typhoon SSBN
SSGN [2]
2 Oscar II SSGN
SSN [6]
6 Akula SSN
1 Sierra I SSN
1 Sierra II SSN
4 Victor III SSN
SSK [6]
5 Kilo SSK
1 Sarov SSK
Aircraft
The Northern Fleet with the exception of the Kuznetsov Air Wing, currently has no offensive aircraft under its direct control. The only 2 remaining Anti-Ship Regiments of TU-22M2/3 [45 ac] are those stationed in the Far East as part of the Pacific Fleet. No ASW aircraft are under its command though it can utilise the Bear/May Regiment at Ostrov (Pskov) which also serves the Baltic fleet.As I am sure you can see the largest Soviet Naval Force currently available is truely a shadow of its former self and is only slightly larger than the RN but far less flexible/ deployable than the RN, especially when the Light Frigates/Corvettes as these are only of use in littorial defensive operations and cannot be easily deployed.
Can you explain/provide evidence for the highlighted?
What about the 840th Heavy Bomber Regiment at Soltsy?! Tu-22M3 equipped AFAIK.
Non-Navy Backfires are surely trained and capable of performing anti-ship strikes, as this is their main role and best ability as of today in general. Not relevant if this is a Navy – Navy comparison, though.
Less flexible? Maybe.
Less deployable? How so? It seems the the Northern Fleet severely outguns the RN, maybe not NATO forces of that area, but certainly the RN. Including counting the absence of the Backfires.
dionisThe notion that the Russian navy is more capable than the RN is hilarious, it is ridiculous in the extreme.
The Russian navy barely goes anywhere without an ocean going tug,
Its ships have a habit of catching fire, breaking down or just sinking; hence the tug.
And the number of sea days put in is pathetic; there were just 7 nuclear submarine patrols in 2008.How many times a year do the vaunted Kirov’s make it to sea? or the Oscars? How often is there a Russian carrier at sea?
What are they going to be doing at sea that is newsworthy?
Do you have information on their daily whereabouts emailed to your Blackberry?
The US for the first time detected Russian subs off of their coast in 10 years, great job there, being the US’s backyard.
If an Oscar II goes out, no one is going to know about it except the Russian naval staff.
dionisStill not solved the problem of locating the CBG in the first place in order to launch this little exercise.
Locating a CBG is not hard when the CBG becomes a problem, and if the CBG is not a problem, it’s not worrying anyone.
Again, one has to find the CBG first and then get the corrdinates to the missile.
See above.
A shadow of what the Soviet Union could deploy and with the very low number of Sea Days put in by Russian crews they are now anything but proficient compared to their western counterparts.
The USSR was overkill for conventional deterrence. What Russia or even China have now will keep everyone including the USN away unless the US is directly threatened in some extreme manner.
Except in such a scenario we are talking about almost a dozen CBG’s and with the ability of the carriers aircraft and its escorts to intercept multiple incoming missiles you will be lucky if 50 is enough for one carrier. Remember a Tico can keep at least 48 AD missiles airborne at anyone time.
Hahah 12 CBGs all in 1 spot? Nice way to get it all nuked.
I’d suspect any operation the US would launch would never have more than 3-5 carriers, due to some being in maintenance and some being on duty somewhere else.
Unless you think the entire Russian Navy or Chinese Navy will be defending one coastline too. . .
dionisThat was the Cold War when Soviet power was at its zenith. Nowadays with Russia prioritising spending on its land based nuclear assets would have a much much harder time carrying out an attack on a CBG, if any chance at all at that goes for most nations. Under wartime conditions no aircraft is going to get within effective launch range of a CBG unless on a one way mission. You have to swamp a CBG’s defences and that requires numbers and ISTAR is going to detect the launch of that many assets. Against a majot threat the USN is not going to send a single CBG either but multiple assets.
One way mission is unlikely for a heavy bomber like a Backfire. If it is armed with the Kh-22M missiles it can engage the CBG from 400KM out, or even more with the Kh-32, but the exact new range of this missile is classified.
The CAPs of the carrier group will have an issue finding the Backfire attack, unless a Hawkeye is emitting all of the place, or the Burke’s SPY’s are operating at full power, which will give the CBG’s position away really quickly to patrolling A-50s or Tu-142Ms.
Once the missiles are launched, the Backfires can turn and easily outrun any F-18E trying to chase them.
As for submarines yes these are a threat but again you need numbers and Russia simply no longer has these. India and China are not even in the game at present. An attack by an Oscar II would scare the hell out of a CBG but would in all likelyhood fail to sink the carrier and the Oscar would only get one attack. How many Oscar IIs doed the Russian Navy have?
6-8, the real number is unknown. Overhauls have been ongoing pretty intensely over the last 6 years though, so you may expect a few to be in repair from the 9 total.
That still leaves out the Victor IIIs, Akulas, and Sierra II class boats, and the large number of Kilos subs, which are excellent for defensive ops.
Until someone can launch 50+ long range aircraft (Backfire class) at a CBG and had intel on its location without alerting the CBG, or deply multiple underwater assets to attack of different directs at once again without detection at launch, the CBG will be the King of the Seas.
Russians could muster more than 50 Backfires, but that would be overkill for 1 CBG. Depending on how close the CBG gets, you may even get to deploy tactical bombers and attack boats armed with Moskits.
dionisFiring P-700’s at Keflavik would take their principle ‘carrier-killers’ out just when they would be needed most. Remember that regiments of Tu-16’s and Tu-22’s swarming all over the Atlantic were Clancy fantasies. Those squadrons were the prime antiship theatre-entry prevention for the whole Northern Fleet oparea. The Oscars represented about the only hope the Soviets had to engage carriers in ‘NATO waters’.
What a waste of Badgers / Blinders / Backfires.
A Tu-95 could have easily taken out and land facilities.
dionisOne day you will contribute something to this forum………one day.
At least I don’t pollute threads except in response to crap from the likes of you that I just can’t resist. I’m here more for give/take with news and pictures, in which I certainly contribute more than you, who will only post negative sh1t on the RuN. I have high hopes for you too. 😀
dionisI dont need to, they are all in the posts above for everybody to see, not to mention this is a Russian navy thread that you now seem bent on trashing.
You are the expert at trolling and bashing this thread.
Of course the Russian Sovs are junk, and the PLAN ones are good, and the US Burkes are the best. 😀
dionishttp://en.rian.ru/russia/20090305/120443247.html
I’m wondering if it isn’t a product of a seeming plethora of mis-designations (Night Hunger?) but I was under the very strong impression that the -30MK2s were only for export, and that it was the -35BM favoured by the VVS.
Not that this is naval discussion, but it’s also interesting to see the continued emphasis of new versions of the venerable old Frogfoot.
Night hunger is quite hard to repel I must say. 😮
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