The fact that the groundcrew don’t have ear defenders doesn’t help much…:eek:

Ken

Heard of ear plugs? :p

The program is technically active inside of MIG-MAPO, as they have sold some of them abroad (Yemen has some in service right now, for example). I seem to recall the upgraded aircraft having been trialled in Russia for the Russian Air Force, but around the time you expected to hear about them taking delivery of the first examples (like the well-publicised delivery of the first Su-27SMs) the program seemed to disappear apart as an export project. I’d assume that they favored the Su-27 upgrade as the FLANKER is a more capable platform and they get more bang for their ruble. Sukhoi’s political connections may not have hurt either. Apart from the MiG-31 upgrade that is ongoing right now, MIG-MAPO appears to have been shut out of the Russian military for some reason.

Isn’t MiG still involved with the PAK FA?

Project spearheaded by Sukhoi of course, but the project supposedly called for lots of designers?

Rav3n, I think that you posted the “Admiral Lazarev” twice.

Sorry my friends but all of you are against me when I ask questions for modernization of Kirovs. I insist to my opinion. Why we talk too much for Yakhonts? Yakhont is just a antiship missile, but the fact is that the Kirov class is too large. That means the capability to carry large amount of missiles. Just keep in mind Ticoderoga has length 172m and beam 17,4m, when Kirov class has length 252m and beam 28m, 10 meters more than Ticoderoga. What I want to say is to just imagine how many tomahawks a Kirov could carry!! And if you remove the 130mm gun from the back and just put cells that vessel could possibly carry up to 200 cruise missiles. That means an arsenal ship. So if Akula class SSN carries the Granat cruise missile I dont understand why Admiral Nakhimov is not armed with SS-N-21s. The best option should be a universal VLS for both Yakhonts and cruise missiles. With cruise missiles the Kirovs could be strategic platforms in the future.

The Tomahawk and SS-N-21 aren’t what the Russian Navy really need or needed in the past. Their (Russian Armed Forces) cruise missile attacks are generally carried out by the Tu-95/160 bombers.

The Kirov is meant more as an anti-ship / anti aircraft platform, with other secondary uses as well like ASuW.

Arming it with subsonic missiles would be a serious downgrade if anything.

I’m sure there is enough room to add a cruise missile launch system for Granats anyway.

Upgrading the Granits to do a flight profile like the Yakhont’s would be the best option in my opinion, and perhaps increase range with a booster or better motor.

Wonder what the fate of the Kirovs is going to be. . .

There is no clear evidence of anything for Ushakov or Lazarev.

Nakhimov seems to be getting a refit, though it seems unclear what it is going to be. Some sources claim they will refit it with a new digital computer system and change the SS-N-19s for Yakhonts. The SS-N-19 is also suppose to be getting a full modernization – so who knows that’s up?

Kirov (Lazarev) and SSV-33: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.928575,132.41972&z=17&t=h&hl=en
Piotr Velikiy here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=69.085017,33.425746&z=17&t=h&hl=en
Nakhimov here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=64.580282,39.792975&z=17&t=h&hl=en
Ushakov here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=64.574946,39.799079&z=17&t=h&hl=en

Not sure about Ushakov and Nakhimov, who’s who.
Name of Ushakov i think is taken by one of the remaining Sovremenny. (Source warfare.ru)

Where are you seeing the second Kirov in “Vladivostok area” ?

—> What in the world is this then? http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.126617,132.331266&spn=0.005708,0.010042&t=h&z=17

Yeah cos those Iraqi tanks performed so well, how many thousand of them were blown. You do realise that Iraqi armour got owned by western armour don’t you, like it or not the russian tanks in modern combat have proven to be nothing more then metal coffins when facing obese western armour. History speaks far louder then any Russian tank makers sales brouchers could ever hope too.

You mean downgraded and then old T-72s with terrible combat specs?

With a side-serving of terrible command /control / recon assets?

Good stuff.

For the Google Earth experts.. how do you explain there being 5 Kirovs visible?

2 around Vladivostok, 2 in Severodvinsk, in 1 Severomorsk.

the SSV-33 command ship is in the Vladivostok area as well.

…and now you are clutching at another mans straws!. Dionis has a need to believe Garry, you can see he is a young lad who really, really wants there to be an answer to US naval hegemony and he’s convinced himself that that is the Tom Clancy fantasy. You know better!. You know full well, after all the discussions we’ve had, of the problems of shooting radar guided antiship missiles in cluttered sea-space – we’ve debated it often enough over the past 8 years or so!. I was using the ‘lone A-50/Bear scenario’ to show him how thin his fantasy really was.

Thanks for the patronizing crap. You are the epitome of knowledge here, clearly. :rolleyes:

Whatever makes you think that your opinion about how any of these scenarios will turn out is always right is laughable at best.

Any conflict between the US and Russia will happen over some other country. PERIOD. History has shown this. Cuba. Korea. Vietnam. The question is how direct will the confrontation be.

Right now, I doubt South America or Asia have anything worth fighting over. That leaves us with what Africa? Hmm.. Unlikely.

Which brings us to what the US seems to be after so much these days – oil.

Considering it seems the US is going to continue sticking its nose where it doesn’t belong, whether it’s because “That bad man has *imaginary* truck loads of WMDs in his palace” or “the bad government of X country is known for harboring terrorists” – fact of the matter is any conflict that the US and Russian forces will engage in the in the future will likely be somewhere around the Middle East.

This automatically makes carriers all the less “invisibile.”

Your comment about it being impossible to send out Oscar IIs to engage CVBGs prior to an air attack is rubbish. Oscar IIs were developed and have a history of shadowing US Carrier groups. This is common knowledge. The only issue would be making sure they have a good escape route if they engage.

Suppose that the nation in question here is Iran. The US starts invading, the Iranian plead the Russians for help. The Russians would be able to send Backfires through the Caspian into Iran, fire from the middle of Iran, and be hitting targets in the Persian Gulf with Kh-22/32s. And if that means getting targeting aircraft with escorts out (those fantasy Bears, Mainstays, Foxhounds, Flankers, etc), then that’s the way it will be done.

—

As a side note:

Recently approved, a rearmament program until 2015 for the first time in Soviet and Russian history puts the development of the navy on an equal footing with strategic nuclear forces. The program covering the period until 2015 is expected to replace 45% of the military inventory in the army and navy.[1] Out of 4.9 trillion rubles ($192.16 billion) allocated for military rearmament, 25% will go into building new ships. “We are already building practically as many ships as we did in Soviet times,” First Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov said during a visit to Severodvinsk. “The problem now is not lack of money, but how to optimize production so that the navy can get new ships three, not five, years after laying them down.

“Soviet scale” production is back, upgrade programs well underway for all Soviet era technology. All talk of the Russians being not prepared is now close to meaningless.