Pleased that this topic has appeared again to remind me that I have odd snippets to add to my major post earlier on BAPC numbers and B of B Film Hurricane replicas. In off forum discussion it appears fairly certain that the ‘untraced’ BAPC.73 that ‘disappeared’ from the UK very early ’80s is indeed the Hurricane replica at Omaka, New Zealand, which has worn a variety of schemes – is it still in American colours? However there is also thought to be an ‘older’ Hurricane replica in Australia – anyone know more?

Knowing the width and depth of knowledge displayed by forum members, I am more than a little surprised that no one has ventured any destination/current whereabouts for BAPC.68 which was on display with the Midland Aviation Museum at Coventry for a number of years, last known marked H3426. Surely someone knows where this this went when it left Coventry?

Looking at the links provided above to older forum threads, I don’t think my researches turned up the Bill Miles Collection machine at North Weald late 70s/early 80s mentioned in post #9 of the link provided by air-relics. Time window is possibly a little early to be the one acquired at a Museum sale early 90s (first post of this thread). Any thoughts?

Interesting thread. I was so certain that a ‘past’ could be found for Z3174 by members of this forum, two weeks on and we are no closer even to agreeing on its provenance as a Battle of Britain Film FSM replica. Surely someone knows.

I’ve been digging in some of the standard texts, although I don’t have anything like a full set of ‘Wrecks & Relics’, Ken Ellis on my bookshelf.

Dangerously, I have made some assumptions. Firstly that this replica or FSM has been around for some time, certainly before the 90s. IF that is the case, then very likely the existence should have been noted in the ‘British Aircraft Preservation Council (BAPC) Register’ – a listing of aircraft without any permanent identity such as a constructor’s number or CAA registration etc.

The Register lists a number of FSM Hurricanes, the earliest are 5 constructed for the ‘The Battle of Britain’ film in 1968. It is possible that others survived whole, or in part, unrecorded by BAPC though!.

BAPC.63 Initially marked L1592 KW:Z, now P3208 SD:T and currently at Hawkinge, Kent
BAPC.64 Marked as P3059 SD:N and been at Hawkinge for many years
BAPC.68 Marked as P3975 at Stoneleigh ’74. As H3426 noted dismantled Midland Air Museum, Coventry in 1982, later on display, still there in ’94 and gone before 2002. Cannot find reference to the current whereabouts though. Anyone know more?
BAPC.72 Initially marked as V7767, now V6799 SD:X with Jet Age Museum at Staverton
BAPC.73 Noted on display at the Queens Head, Bishops Stortford in the early ’78 edition, noted as ‘location unknown’ in the ’80 edition and subsequent editions through the ’80s.

The nearest editions of ‘W&R’ that I have to the circa 1990 sale mentioned in the initial post are for 1986 and 1994. Neither edition mention further Hurricane replicas, nor any with a serial Z3174. So no real help. A number of Hurricane replicas/FSMs (call them whatever fits best) appear on the BAPC register in the early BAPC.200s. Knowing that BAPC.231 was reached by early 1992, then further candidates around in the early/mid ’90s would include:

BAPC.205 as BE421 XP:G noted as a gate guard at RAFM Hendon in 1994, now as Z3427 AV:R with RAF Museum
BAPC.218 as P3386 FT:I noted as gate guard at RAF Bentley Priory in 1994, still there 2012 as P3386 FT:A.
BAPC.219 as L1710 AL: D noted as guardian outside the RAF Chapel at Biggin Hill in late 1993. Recently re-marked as L1684 and is now at RAF Northolt.
BAPC.241 as L1679 JX:G is at Tangmere Military Aviation Museum 2012
So all these are accounted for. After that come BAPC.263,265, 288, 272, 273 & 278 at least, but are likely constructed more recently than the example the question is about.

Thought I might ‘strike lucky’, unfortunately not – but these ramblings might help jog the memory of others. There are candidates in the listings eg BAPC.68 and BAPC.73 in particular stand out as worthy of further consideration and are constructed for the BofB film. However, finding a certain link between these dated references and the fuselage in question is near impossible – unless someone knows otherwise (and quite possibly do)!

Hurricane serial ‘Z3174’ does not feature in Ian Allan’s (now Midland) annual ‘Military Aircraft Markings’ – so clearly your fuselage has not been in public view for some years.

Had a thought that the ‘museum closure sale’ mentioned could have been the Flambards Aviation Museum sale in 1992 – but can find no reference to a Hurricane replica having been there. Another probable dead end!

Have half a memory of discussion regarding FSM Hurricanes at Newark – possibly posts within the long running Newark Air Museum threads, but a quick look does not locate – probably a ‘red herring’ anyway!

Sorry, missed catching that detail in a reply. So a reasonable selection of airfields and flying clubs to choose from. The advice regarding acquiring a logbook first before trial flights is a good one so that they count towards training hours. Indeed reading back through the replies, all the advice appears sound and helpful. I wish you every success.

There are many excellent flying schools all around the country. Your choice will depend very greatly on where you are resident. Unless you live somewhere spectacularly remote then I would suggest that you ‘Google’ and investigate all the airfields/flying schools within an easy 30-40 minute drive, an hour tops. It becomes a little ‘time ridiculous’ when you spend over 2 hours on the round road trip only to find the weather has changed. Life style comes into this to, I know of someone who lived very close to an very active training airfield, but learned to fly three hours from home at an airfield not far from where he had a weekend family caravan.

You don’t seem to be looking for a residential course with the aim of learning quickly heading to be an airline pilot, if so, then your choice is more restricted and the selection of the right school more critical and other factors come into play such as UK or US based and the qualification level/type you are ultimately aiming for.

Maybe a truism, but you will find that when talking to club members that there is only one best flying training school – and that is the one they learned to fly at (or just occasionally their’s was the worst because in some way they were let down by the organisation). Flying schools in the UK are highly regulated, so there is little room for ‘bad’ flying training organisations. By taking the advice to ‘pay-as-you-go’, you are free to change your choice of training organisation and pick-up roughly where you left off – the main penalty being the cost of another Club membership.

Without a rough idea of intended geographical location, the answers and suggestions provided here can only be generalisations. Within a 40 mile radius of my urban location, I can think of around 10 flying training clubs/schools at 4 different airfields (more if microlight/sport clubs/airfields are considered) – all with very good to excellent reputations. It is the detail that separates them eg type/mix of aircraft, qualifications offered, way charges are calculated, ability to offer weekend/early/late lessons (especially if essential to fit your life-style), ratio of staff and part-time instructors, type of aerodrome (from International airport to grass field) etc., etc.

A friend recently was asking the same sort of questions you are. He looked at websites, asked around, considered cost estimates – but ultimately he booked a trial flight at the three clubs (a microlight school, an aero club and for the experience a helicopter school) and considered just how much he enjoyed the experience and how motivated they were to get (and keep) his business. Mind you he then lost his job, so flying training plans went on ‘hold’!

I do hope that ‘Blackcat 54’ enjoyed his long trip to Liverpool from the South Coast that prompted this thread. Saturday has been a day of wall-to-wall sunshine in Liverpool, with the result that visitors flocked to the Pier Head and the Mersey waterfront in their tens of thousands. The ‘Battle of Mersey’ was amusing to watch rather than realistic and could well have shown off the roles of Lynx and Merlin in addition to the single Sea King displayed. The fly-by the BBMF Spitfire and Hurricane turned into three passes along the River waterfront by PM631 and LF363 – a wonderful sight and sound in the bright sunshine. Visitors flocked onto the vessels that were open to the public and thronged in huge numbers around the static helicopters displayed at the Pier Head. There were serious moments too, with a parade of veterans. I enjoyed my (local) day out considerably, but will have to go back tomorrow early to get photos without a sea of heads in the way!

First car parking. There are two shopping car parks close to the Pier Head, both accessed off the main Strand Road dual carriageway, just to the south of the ‘Three Graces’ (Pier Head). One is ‘Liverpool One’, the other ‘Liverpool Arena’ parking. The weekend is likely to be busy. The Shopping Car Parks are expensive for a full day visit!

An alternative, especially if arriving from the south via the M6/M56/Runcorn Bridge/past the old airport terminal (rather than M6/M62) is to use the large commuter car park in Liverpool South Parkway station (in Garston suburb) and take the electric ‘Merseyrail’ into central Liverpool (takes 14 minutes, runs every 15 mins, then 10-15 minute walk). LSP is not that far from the former Airport Terminal, with a collection of Britannia, HS.748, Prince, Meteor and Jetstream 41 on the former apron (not visible from road, but easily accessed around either end of the Crowne Plaze Hotel (but not from David Lloyd).

Locally there is much information on events, but still (even in Friday evening’s local paper) not much on the timing of events! Currently trying to work out the best times to go down to the waterfront this weekend myself for the most aviation related activity. Not finding it that easy to locate a comprehensive list of times/locations, however this is the best I’ve found so far – http://blogs.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/dalestreetblues/BOA_pocket_guide%5B1%5D.pdf

Five vessels are to be open to the public to visit on Saturday, Sunday and Monday, between 11am and 4pm (closed 5pm).
HMS Edinburgh – in Cammell Laird West Basin (farewell visit to the place of her construction)
HMS Pembroke – in Canning Half Tide Dock (Minesweeper)
Kulakov – at Cruise Liner Terminal (Russian Navy)
Iroquois – at Cruise Liner Terminal (Canadian Navy)
Groemitz – at Canning Half Tide Dock (German Navy minesweeper)

There are also static aircraft and recruitment displays by the RAF and FAA/RN in the Pier Head area. The RAF are displaying Typhoon mock-up ‘IR206’ and Chinook mock-up ‘IR808’, while the Royal Navy have some ‘real’ hardware with XV704 Sea King, ZD254 Lynx, XZ930 Gazelle and a Sea Harrier nose – all noted arriving by road. Recruiting exhibitions open 1100 to 1700 each day.

Vessels visiting which are helicopter capable are:
HMS Bulwark in Alexandra Dock, Bootle (arrival pictures show no helicopters out on the flight deck)
HMCS Iroquois destroyer – CH-124A (Sea King) 12406/406 embarked (Cruise Liner Terminal)
Polish Navy Frigate Gen T Koscciuszko – Sea Sprite 163546 embarked (Cruise Liner Terminal)
Russian Navy Destroyer Vice Admiral Kulakov – Kamov Ka-27 bort ‘Red 51’ embarked (Cruise Liner Terminal)
HMS Edinburgh – nothing showing up on arrival photos (Cammell Laird West Basin), but Lynx HMA.8 XZ736 likely embarked

FRIDAY, 24th MAY

At 1900 a Swordfish will fly a rather strange routing over the River and Liverpool, routing Ellesmere Port-Crosby-Maghull-Aintree-Bootle and presumably landing at RAF Woodvale. Given the current wind at Liverpool, I doubt that this did happen, although the strong winds of the day have died down this evening.

SATURDAY, 25th MAY

1300 ‘Battle of the Mersey’ capability demonstration featuring a Sea King helicopter and assault ships, visible from central waterfront.
1330 Flypast along waterfront by BBMF Spitfire and Hurricane
2130 til 2400 (also Sunday) Morse Code Laser light show projected on the Royal Liver Building to commemorate the work of Alan Turing, instrumental in cracking to Enigma code.

SUNDAY, 26th MAY

1230 (some sources 1240), flypast involving a Swordfish, 2 Sea Kings, a Merlin and a Lynx over Alexandra Dock then across City Centre and over Liverpool Cathedral as a tribute to veterans at the close of the Cathedral service. Princess Anne in Liverpool for the Cathedral service and wreath laying.
1430 ‘Battle of the Mersey’ capability display off the Central Waterfront, including Sea King.

MONDAY, 27th MAY

1500 ‘Battle of the Mersey’ capability display off the central waterfront, including Sea King.

TUESDAY 28th MAY

Co-ordinated departure of Naval and Civilian craft, 1400 to 1700 hours.

NB None of the sources I’ve looked at quote display times for a solo Lynx ‘Blackcat’ performing. The Royal Navy helicopters are operating out of RAF Woodvale.

Some photos from the Pier Head on Friday on page 3 of: http://www.derbosoft.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=local&action=display&thread=11367&page=3 and possibly on a page 4 as this link is to an active thread!

I do hope that forum regular (an ‘old hand’ and far more numerous postee than myself) “Spifireman” does not mind me posting these two shots of his Spitfire 1 FSM taken last June at Newquay, as an initial response to this enquiry. While I was only interested in looking, I’m sure he can provide the details such as the trailer length, jigs, tie-downs, DVLA rules, assembly routine etc. The photos certainly show what is possible.

Spitfire 1, full scale model, N3290/AI:H, loaded on its transportation trailer and a frequent exhibit at events in the SW region.

Together with a few more found from a year earlier (June 2011):