Leaving the question of Caledonian to one side for the moment, Ted, what type of photography are you aiming to concentrate on? May seem a strange question, but clearly the day course you are considering comes under the banner of ‘glamour’ photography, rather than ‘aviation’ photography ie the focal point being the uniformed model, rather than the aircraft.

As regards to courses, it depends how much you are already into digital photography. If you are only a recent convert from negatives, I would strongly recommend a local authority adult evening class (google adult classes or evening classes in ………… (nearest town/city)), they are likely to have a range from beginners to advanced and deal with best use of the settings on a digital camera, sensor cleaning, using photoshop/picasa, resizing, digitizing from prints/negative/transparences, internet posting etc etc ie a sound background for whatever subjects you wish to concentrate on. Most courses start early September, so don’t waste time worrying about if you should, go ahead and enroll next week!

I’ve never heard of courses specialising in aviation photography, I would think most photographers on the forum have picked up their techniques mainly by experience from standing at air shows or as near the end of the runway as they can legally get at their local airport! Talking to other aviation photographers comparing techniques can help too. The great thing about digital photography is you can bang away forever changing settings, then see what works for you, then cancel the rest without costing a penny extra – not like the old days of transparency 35mm film when every frame cost dear.

You don’t state if your camera is new, just that your PC is. If you are still using a film camera I would strongly recommend purchase of a digital camera. Members on this (and other) forums will be only too delighted to offer conflicting advice as to compact or SLR – but will always advise that the best camera and lens combinations is the one above your price range …. only jesting!!

Although not photographic courses, to stretch your capabilities and provide great opportunities, how about a night shoot – there were several at Coventry last autumn/spring organised by Classic Aviation. Not sure if their move to Newquay will affect their programme for this winter. As you state an interest in ‘older aircraft’ how about trying one of the Shuttleworth shows at Old Warden and Duxford’s ‘Flying Legends 2013’ (although for photographers, the position of the sun there can be a challenge, don’t let that put you off). Although mostly over for 2012, seafront displays can provide great opportunities (just look at Anna’s “wow” photos off a cliff top elsewhere on the forum).

Whatever, do have fun taking your pictures.

While I don’t have the answer (to post #7), I’m not totally convinced by the proffered answer (post #13). As I recall, towards the end all the 6 FTS Finningley Jet Provost T.5Bs and for a period all the 4 FTS Hawk T.1s had the attractive blue top applied to the red/white training scheme. Neither unit had aerobatic teams, although performed flypasts at base Battle of Britain/At Homes displays. While the JP T5s were retired from service, the Valley Hawks later became air defence pale grey and more recently the current gloss black overall. Don’t recall the blue top on other red/white training scheme types though eg Chipmunk, Bulldog, Tucano, Varsity, Jetstream or Dominie. Although having typed that, think the Tucano fleet may well have gained blue tops, not certain without access to my photo collection.

Sighted on the M57 early evening Wednesday 22nd – a logical route into Liverpool Docks.

Reported on the North West Air News forum.
http://www.derbosoft.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=local&thread=10336&page=1

Yes, 1969 puts you firmly in the period of Boeing 707, Douglas DC-8, Comet 4, Convair Cv.990. Indeed 1969 witnessed the first flight of both the Boeing 747 and of Concorde. Short haul was progressively being dominated by BAC.1-11, Caravelle, Douglas DC-9 and growing numbers of Boeing 737s, replacing Viscounts, Vanguards, Electras, Britannias, DC-6, Dakotas etc. Piston engined airliners were being relegated to developing countries and freight operations.

An interesting aspect of your question, as asked, is that when compared to the Cv.990 Coronado, cruising speeds today are actually slightly slower by even the newest large jet airliners. This being due to aerodynamic design considerations with less sweep to the wing and more drag created by wider and longer fuselages despite far more powerful engines.

There are other factors that make your question interesting to consider. While direct UK to Middle East or East Coast USA flights times should be largely similar to those of a Boeing 707, flight times to Far East, Australasia, West Coast USA, Southern Africa and South America will often be considerably less – simply because Boeing 777, Airbus A.330 etc have way longer range so require fewer, or indeed no fuel stops en route. Today passengers are less stressed by overnight stops in hot climates and time-zone changes, although crews no longer have en-route stop-overs but sleep on the aircraft changing shift in-flight.

Another factor in the equation is that today airlines allow for far longer timetabling ‘block times’ than in the past – this covers for longer taxi-times, runway congestion, holding and ATC slot delays. By building-in far longer block-times into the timetabling than the actual flight times, airlines can boast how often they arrive ‘on time’ and passengers feel good when they arrive early! A local example, although short haul, is that a quiet time of day rotation, with a flight time of 30 minutes regularly arrives 25 minutes early, due to a block-time of an hour in the timetable. Back in the ‘Sixties, even with Viscounts the timetable block time was 45 or 50 minutes – but much more honest timings!

Looking back at the original question, if you had asked about how much the world has shrunk in terms of air travel times since 1959 – there would be a massive difference as the main early jet airliners, Comet 4, Boeing 707, Douglas DC-8 were only just being introduced to service. The slower and more frequently fuel-stopping Constellations, Douglas DC-7, Britannia etc were still in front-line service. The piston-engined intercontinental types were also far less mechanically reliable than the jets that replaced them quickly became, and far more subject to en-route weather delays as they flew lower.

Thank you ‘AMB’ for pinning down the Farnborough dates far more accurately than I had.

The colour print of the Gnat XM691 with red tips is so much more worthwhile than my b&ws. On behalf of thread initiator “Bluebird Mike”, I am delighted that my bringing this thread back to life has had positive results in turning up further photos of this aircraft in different colour schemes. Any more?

This sounds rather like a variation of a thread some months ago that asked if you put big enough engines on, could a hangar door fly? I think the concensus was yes; but have you ever seen a hangar door with a fin and flying control surfaces?!! 🙂

I’ve also watched a NZ movie clip recently that showed a flying lawnmower – again sheer power over aerodynamics. Sorry it was sent to me as an e-mail attachment, not a link – it was titled ‘This is what happens when you get a Boeing engineer to mess about with your lawn mower’.

Also, again drifting off topic slightly, as it is the reverse of the question asked, I recall aerobatic pilot Neil Williams landing a Zlin inverted after the main spar failed. Well he approached inverted, then rolled upright immediately prior to touch-down, so keeping the wings aerodynamically loaded against the failed spar section.

Back on-topic, I remember seeing photos some years ago of a Pitts S-1 in the USA with a second undercarriage and wheels fixed above the wing – the party piece being to depart normally, then land and take-off inverted to land right way up again. If a Pitts fits “Hampden98’s” image of an ‘average’ aircraft, then this recollection of mine, would indicate the answer is most certainly, yes! (Wonder how long it will take the obscure recognition thread maestros to produce a picture?).

Although not much different to ‘Big Dan’s’ photos posted on the work in progress on Meteor F.8 WH364, a couple taken from within the public area at Gloucester/Staverton on Saturday 12th August, just as the day’s work was coming to an end.

Talked briefly with the two guys there, who were very appreciative of the answers that had been provided by members of this forum in response to ‘Big Dan’s’ questions. They feel they now have the information to be certain that they are doing a full and accurate job and thank all those who have helped out.

Prior to Jan 1968 all West German Air Force aircraft had no ‘permanent’ registration apart from the C/no or a previous military number. The ‘identity’ worn on the fuselage either side of the national insignia reflected the unit (two letters) and an identity within the unit (three numbers). Only a handful of Sabres were renumbered in 1968 into the new sequence.

Main reference I know of is Paul Jackson’s “German Military Aviation 1956-1976”, pub. by Midland Counties Publications, 1976. He lists by c/no: 75 Canadair CL-13B/F-86E/Sabre 5; 225 Canadair CL-13B/F-86E/Sabre 6 and 88 Fiat F-86K Sabres. By no means not all ‘identies’ are tied to a c/no, but a good number are listed. I have a copy, PM me if you wish to delve deeper into this source.

There may well be specialist books on the Sabre in WGAF service too.

The Sabre you quote, the first Sabre 6 aquired from new from Montreal, with airframe construction number identity ‘S6-1591’, first became serial YA+005 with ESt61 (military test unit Erprobungsstelle 61 at Manching), subequently saw service with at least serial BB+161 of WS-10 (Waffenschule 10 a flying training unit at Oldenburg), then in 1968 permanent serial 01+01 (01+ sequence allocated to test aircraft) with MBB and subsequently preserved at Manching. The majority of the Sabre 6s were operated with the identity codes BB+ WS-10, JA+ JG71 (Jagdgeschwader 71 at Ahlhorn), JB+ JG72 (at Leck), JC+ JG73 (at Oldenburg), with a few using test/delivery codes in the KE+ sequence.