The RB199 is a triple spool turbofan and thus suffers from the same sort of lag as a turbo charged car. I did not say that the spool up time was awful but, trust me, it is significantly slower than the simple Avon.
I agree that the BAC ‘concept’ demonstrator was a bit OTT but the overwing and underwing pods are SNEB for use in a ground attack role, not for discouraging bomber streams. The retractable fuselage pack was, however, an air-air rocket system and was originally envisaged for the F1 Lightning.
Dark Duke,
To amplify some of the answers/comments here:
Stacked layout: this was done to reduce frontal cross-section and therefore drag. The result was a a genuine Mach2 fighter with a staggering initial rate of climb (50000’/min) and the ability to maintain supersonic speed without reheat. The downside was that there was nowhere in the fuselage to put fuel.
Spool time: by now the Avon was a proven, reliable engine and, being axial flow spooled up very quickly. Certainly a lot quicker than the Spey in the F4 and the RB199 in Tornado and I have flown all three. I would therefore totally disagree with the posts re slow spool time and unreliability. I have over 2000 hrs on Avon powered fighters and in all that time never had a single engine failure.
On the Lightning the stagger did not always provide ‘consistency for airflow’. When taxiing, the No 2 engine (top) was kept at 65% to keep the electrics on line with the No 1 at idle. On take off you had to bring the No 1 up to match No 2 before selecting full power otherwise the No 2 would ‘steal’ all the intake air which would lead to a very slow spool up of no 1. It was quite common to see inexperienced pilots launching off down the runway with the top engine in reheat and the bottom still trying to accelerate to 100%
Weapons were never carried overwing although BAC (as they were then) did propose overwing SNEB pods:
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Only fuel was carried overwing and only by the F6. Although jettisonable they had to be empty first so there an emergency dump facility which blew the back flap of the tank off.
I hope that this helps.
. Your wing tip are so far back that once the aircraft roll to one side(on the ground) the tip will dig in and the aircraft will cartwheel.
DP,
I am a little surprised by this statement. Surely any increase in wingsweep reduces the moment arm likely to cause a cartwheel. Do you have any evidence of this ever having occurred? There have been instances of Lightnings landing without a main undercarriage leg and none, as far as I am aware, resulted in a cartwheel. I do recall from my WIWOL days, however, that Pilots Notes and FRCs both prohibited any attempt at landing with only one main gear down. Those cases to which I refer were the result of a main gear collapse on touchdown, not premeditated.
79Sqn in Burma
My father was a serving pilot with 79Sqn in Burma but had no photos of his time there. He has now passed away but I remember asking him why. The accommodation at Cox’s Bazaar was spartan to say the least so none of the pilots had much in the way of personal belongings and certainly no cameras so no photos.
Sabre Dance Video
Try this link for the video: http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-3-11_F_100.wmv
For those of you who have not visited this site before there is a wealth of quite stunning footage ranging from the sublime to the bizarre.
Try this one for starters: http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-3-26_Su_27UBCrashinLviv.wmv
and make sure that you go right to the end. It has to be one of the closest encounters ever filmed!
Tudor 8
Keith
[HTML]I think photo # 3 is the Tudor 8 [/HTML]
Many thanks for the correction – I will annotate the photo accordingly
Hi-Lo-Hi in basic training
One of the problems in the 60s/70s was the very restricted Low Flying System with no low flying areas adjacent to Cranwell & Syerston and only a small one close to Rissie so it was the norm to do a Hi-Lo-Hi just to get the low flying in. It was also quite a useful exercise to start students thinking about safety altitudes, let downs to low level etc.
Ashtons & Tudors
Here are a couple of Tudor shots, picture 1 includes a Lancaster and Lincoln, and 3 Ashton shots of 3 different variants that clearly show the Tudor origin. All were given to me by Roly Falk, who was a family friend, in the early 60s
And two from 1968:
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Coltishall 1969
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80000′ feet plus
Have just stumbled on this interesting thread so will throw in my 2p’s worth.
As a WIWOL I can vouch for the fact that 80000’+ indicated was very acheivable and did so myself in an F1A but would have thought that the much heavier F6/F53 would normally have really struggled above 80000 and 90000’+ is, in my humble opinion, fantasy. Having served with BC I too do not doubt his claim but I should point out, for those that may not appreciate it, that all these altitudes were extremely transitory being at the top of a prolonged, ballistic trajectory.
No one has mentioned the question of IAS and therefore aerodynamic controllability at these altitudes. I haven’t done the figures but I can assure you it is very low and you certainly wouldn’t want to be playing around with any aileron input! I am curious as to whether any others of those who have been there found, as I did, the complete lack of forward stick authority and got to the altitude they did as a result.
My lasting memory of my bit of stupidity ‘I wonder how high I can get?’ was that the sky went very dark, there was hardly a sound (apart from a thumping heart!) and that the view was sensational – out of this world almost!
1956 – Silver City Bristol Freighter Southampton-Cherbourg with parents in their Daimler Conquest Century. Passenger compartment was bijou to say the least.
Lightning photos
Tim,
I have emailed you.
Yes, I have heard this one a few times but always involving an Italian guard at Decimomannu. It is unlikely to have been Cyprus as the only military base was/is Akrotiri and French Mirages would not have been allowed to stage through Larnaca. Paphos had not opened at the time and Nicosia was immobilised in 1974.
two Mk 1s (white first, then green as instructed) :
We went back and forth from white to green flying gloves, too.
I don’t ever recall green Mk 1s – they were always silver. From memory the white crosses were implemented in 1970 following the tragic loss of a Lightning pilot at dusk in the sea off Leuchars when the search helo could not spot him in the water – he had lost his dinghy.
I still have my pre 1969 silver Mk1 which I continued to use into the mid 70s and it has the fluorescent cross.
One reason for oscillating between green & white flying gloves was that it was extremely difficult to see formation hand signals made with a green-gloved hand to the point that we often resorted to taking a glove off to ensure that formating aircraft did not miss an all-important hand signal. A missed services signal in cloud was always highly embarrassing.