JAGRE: eastern sniper comparison- PART -2
ill make sure i do.
Anyways i do remember the ones i saw in person all had bipods as you describe them. This one reminds me of M-72 (am i getting the name right??) RifleMachinegun (pusko-mitraljez) which was basic ak74 but with longer barrel , am not sure but i think also more powerfull bulets thoguh same caliber, and a bipods exactly placed as on the photo. So it could well be this was a hand made or transfered from 72
JAGRE: Word Game
Sale
JAGRE: Beer of next Week
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-05-02 AT 08:31 AM (GMT)]Wont you agree INK No beer is as good as Niksicko.
Here in Australia… id say Crown Lager.
Of imports…I like Carlsberg White Elephant and Heiniken.
Attachments:
JAGRE: Word Game
Mine
JAGRE: Breaking News — We’ll miss ya, Kenny
Appart for the clishe of him dying ever episode.. he wasnt that important character.. but if i had to pick one character to knock off it would be Kyle, then Kenny.
Its safe to say that its the Cartmen that makes that show funny.
JAGRE: Kosovo
Hawk i never said we didnt do anything wrong. We certanly did and i saw it with my ayes.. but i also saw with my ayes what you did and what moslims did.. so for a west to pick one side and place all the blame on it was a political motivated crime.
As for you not having unifomrs and no weapons.. then 300+ JNA soldiers died from hart attacks.. and 15 tanks icl M84 self distructed arround Vukovar.Gimme a break. You were arming yourselfe since 70s ….the fighters in vukovar had everything from zoljas to heavy machinegunns.. Its offcourse obvious that JNA was much more numerous and more equiped.. but then again so was the HR army during opperation oluja but that somehow didnt seam to bother you.
As far as for this being last from you on the subject.. i have no problem with that.. after all we were discussing the NATO 99 agression which had nothing to do with croatia.. when you brougth the whole issue up. Belive me when i say that i do not ejoy arguing with you or that i wish to insult you or your people on purpose.. i simply cannont resist not to respond to some nonsence (from my point of view) you said. Its obvious that due to our positions and past experiences we do not se aye to aye one quite few issues… so chances of us agreeing on such issues are slim as you said your sefe. So ill try to restrain my selfe from going into such topics again if you do the same.
I look forward to more constructive disscusions on Aviation based topics with you especialy involving developments in Croatian Airforce.
Pozdrav
JAGRE: Kosovo
Seahawk I dont think hospitals were deliberatly hit.. and i belive neither does ink.. but the fact remain the ones i mentioned above(that i know of) did suffer dammage …even if they were not targeted, for a power that claimed they could send bombs down the chimneys in Bagdad 10 years earlier… it simply shamefull and embaresing.
JAGRE: Kosovo
“And After the the 1941-45 NDH Nazi Eperience where you slaughtered
And this is yours excuse for massacre and attacking civillian in Vukovar, Dubrovnik, Vinkovci, Osijek… and later in BiH Sarajevo, Gorazde, Srebrenica….”
1.No but it is reson for much hate that resulted in 91, because prior that (NDH) we didnt have many incidents (appart from you attacking us in austrohungarian uniforms)between our people, actualy what I maen we didnt do anything to cause you to hate us so much, so you slaughted us for religiuos/national reason only… that remained edgded into serbian minds and resulted in much hate we saw… not that i justify Incidents like srebrenica.
2. Well Vukovar was no “massacre”.. you said it your selfe,,if you have soldier fortyfing houses… then they are legit targets to level them.
3.Dubrovnik was hit by the navy, areas where fire came from where hit… hardly a massacre. And the reason it was hit is as a revenge for killing od 7 soldiers as the army/navy tired to widraw… sam that happend in Tuzla (one of them being my brother killed when their widrawing truck was machingunned just as they left the city, and he was just a conscript who was forced to got there.) and Sarajevo only on much greater scale 200+ tuzla and 50+ sarajevo
4. City of osjek had 30-40 % of serb population.. now there is about 2%… a “ethinc cleansing wouldnt you say”
5.So are you saying the so called “massacres” justified expulsion od 300 000 people and slaugter of thousands..??
“Bridges, Railroads, Postoffices, TV & Radio Stations, Factories in war are legitimate targets if opponent use them for military.I can’t remember any Yug hospital was damaged or destroyed in NATO strike, unlike hospitals in city I mentioned above.”
1.What hospitals? only one i Know of is in Vukovar when 500+ soldiers hid there.. it was hit once with tank shell as warning, after which they did surrender. Nato damaged VMA in Bg, Hit In the car part of hospital in Nis doing shrapmil damage to building and old folks home was leveled on zlatibor cause they thought it was army object.
2.When can a TV station be a military target??? It can at most be used as a political instrument but there is a huge difference between the two. How about the power plants.. does 1% of electricity going to army buildings justify plunging entire nation into dark and only 5 months before freezing winter.?
JAGRE: Kosovo
“And in early 1991 Tudjman and Croats has have 0 tanks, 0 airplanes, 0 artillery so NATO will have nothing to bomb.”
Wrong!!! they could still bomb Hospitals, Bridges, Railroads, Postoffices, TV & Radio Stations, Factories etc. See Hawk what we are talikng about here is not NATO attacks on Yug Tanks, Artilety or airplanes, but leveling of civilian targets and intentional destruction of infrastructure and economy.
JAGRE: Kosovo
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 05-05-02 AT 03:25 AM (GMT)]Yup you right Hawk. We were trying our best to prevent serbs in areas populated by 95% serbs live in Independent Croat Nation. And After the the 1941-45 NDH Nazi Eperience where you slaughtered half million serbs can you realy blames us for not wanting to be part od the same old croatia.. do you want me to post photos of HDZ (tudjmans rulling party) members using Nazi salute in 1990??
JAGRE: Kosovo
My bad. Sorry gary
JAGRE: eastern sniper comparison…
hehehe Im doing my best. Ive contacted few frineds and X soldier in yug.. pluss ill try to see n few serbian formus does anybody have them… theyll have to turn up sooner or later.
Cheers
JAGRE: Kosovo
No garry he didnt say anything bad to demand such language. Rich stick together and avoid helping out less fortunate … noooo way!! When did that ever hapend?? }> (its especialy ironic that many of the rich got there over the backs of poor they inslaved.. and yet many of the poor still pay debts to the rich… go and figure)
But Still there is nothing worng with spenfing your money as you see fit.. so would never dare get angry on a nation for refusing the aid to serbs.. I do however Get Quite Pissed Off relising that if the “Western Europe” and now USA would stop their habit of attacking our country and leveling our industry (on some ocassion eliminating 25% of population) every 50 years or so (3x in this century).. We would be Doing Quite Fine on our own and would not have need to deppend on anybodys “Help”… But i Guess thats what Western Europe has been affraid of all this time..
JAGRE: Kosovo
“Well I guess you mean Jenin and not Berlin. Nothing happened in Berlin that the uN should be concerned off.”
Yup I ment Jennin refugee camp. Thanks for pointing my slip, i was watching the History channel program about WW2 .. i gues my mind sliped.
“Yet you must agree that we never saw 50 or so ETA fighters buried in a mass grave in a field in Spain. Or 20 IRA fighters burried in wood in northern Ireland”.
1. You never saw KLA fighters burried.. you saw some left dead in the battlefield since “Observers” moved in 6 hours after the battle took place.
2. You also never saw Serbian police Shoot 17 people protesting in the streats. Only casualities occured when KLA terrorists took up arms..
“I have never seen pictures of Spanish army troops closing in a ETA stronghold with MBTs. “
Well have you ever seen ETA or IRA strongholds where more than 5000 fighters (Bujanovac for example) fortifyed them selfe.. armed with Ak47/74, Heavy Machine Guns, RPGs, Snipers, Light Shoulder Fired Missiles equiped with Modern combat body armour, uniforms and Communication systems??? Affter 50+ policemen died .. what was the VJ suppose to do?? Use harsh language..ofcourse you will send in MBTs and what ever else you have… because your not facing small groups of terrorists.. but whole army who are well equiped….The total number of KLA was estimated at 30 000 at one point… and they were giving MUP hard time for months.. but once VJ was sent in they were smashed in a week .. in fact when NATO attacked VJ estabilshed control over 99% of Kosovo.. when few months before KLA heald 30-40.. that tells of few things.. 1. Shows the bravery and combat skills of people who now credit them selfe of “liberating” what was never theirs in firts place 2. Tha fact that VJ was about to put end to KLA and establish controll over Kosovo .. didnt suit nato interest.
“I´m not saying that the NATO operation was justified in any way, but you cannot compare the Kosovo problem to the ETA in Spain or the IRA in Northern Ireland. The Kosovo problem was simply much larger, there are no paramilitary terrorst groups in Spain. (at least not battalion sized forces with ATGM, mortars and HMGs)”
Just like I said above. True it was much larger.. but even if it wasnt the Clinton gov. was looking for a reason to eliminate the last regime in Europe that didnt dance to their music, and get rid of SM… why do you think it is they only charged him with war crimes after he decided to oppose them… they had 4 years since end of Bosnian war and 7 since end of croatian war to bring up charges .. but they never even mentioned it as a possibility.. so how can anybody say the Hague isnt a political institution.
“The Kosovo terrorist are no freedom fighters (as there is freedom in Yugoslavia) they are a bunch of nationalists and criminals that want to build a greater Albania. People asspociated to that organisation are known as criminals in most western countries and they are extremly brutal in conducting their crimes. Considering that, it was a major fault of NATO to attack Yugoslavia to free that “bunch of criminals” from serbian surpression. “
Amen for thab Squasher,,,
The level of “freedom” in Yugoslavia during SM government was not same as in some western nations,,, but it was certanly better than most places where americans dont apparently see human right abuses…. in that sence it was same for serbs as it was for all of the citizens.. as long as they didnt attack regime too loudly (many did this anyway.. only few journalists payed with their heads..all serb) or tired to separate form state (this is where albanian caused confrontation) you were living in free nation.
Cheers
JAG
JAGRE: Kosovo
Just like Ink said.. dont make oppinion about moral value of people in nation you dont know two cents worht about.
it may come to supprise to you, but that actualy what most people in Yug feal like about nato. They as do i and i belive Ink as well believe that NATO intervention and agression had nothing to do with “humanitarian” action but with Politics. If you want a proof ask your selfe why US is going to oppose Resolution in UN forcing the Israel to let in the fact finding mission to see what really happend in berlin. Do you want me to name you other nations where humman rights have been so grosly violated yet Americans dont even bother objecting.. simply those governments are US friendly. Yet NATO was so persistant to force Yugoslavia accept international observers (“the ornage force” called because of their orange land rovers) which eventualy led to dubious claims of Racak .. where 50 -100 men (some in uniforms) were apperantly massacred.. when in fact they were shoot in fire fight with MUP. So why does not US support observerd in Jenin.. With such double standards how can they even attempt to take moral high ground and lecture others.. is beyond comprihension.
Also lets look at your presheus EU.. How Long has the ETA been fighting for independence in Spain.. What about IRA .. or best example the Kurds in Turkey… their treatments has been nothing short of crime.. yet we dont see anybody bothering with these issues… Its allways the “Freedom Fighters” in nations that that dont dance to “western music” that get all attention… while in nations that are pro wester.. its allways “blood thirsty terrorist” that fight “illegal and moraly wrong” fights… regardelss of the fact that they have majority support of the region they are fighting for. How blind do you have to be not to see the hypocracy of the situation????
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