Mongu.

“Actually, not that I want to kick off a debate with Kev, but the problem isn’t too many managers, but too many useless ones, especially petty little beurocrats and “suddenly, just because I’m a doctor, I must also be a manager” types.”

Only just spotted this. The problem is that the NHS suffers both of the problems mentioned above. There are too many mangers and too many who are useless. That is how it appeared to the people working on the ‘front line’ (nurses, carers, doctors, ancilliary staff) in the mid 90’s. Having not worked since 1998 I can’t vouch for the situation now. From comments made by former colleagues, the situation is much the same today.

I think your comment about doctor’s feeling they are also managers is a little harsh. Junior doctors, who arrive at a hospital twice a year, shiny new stethoscope and a pocket full of pens, don’t have time to feel they are managers. A week sees a very different character. Bleary eyed with fatigue they struggle to manage their own caseloads. The good ones? They have learned to query everything with either the nursing staff or their Senior House Officers. The SHO’s ‘manage’ the juniors while they themselves chase their tails to ensure they don’t incur the wrath of the Registrar. The Registrar tries to keep everything up to date by pressurising the SHO’s, after all he is just one step away from the exalted position of Consultant. The Consultant has a secretary who manges the consultant’s time for him, always ensuring there is significant time for him to pursue his career in private practice. That is where the money lies and very few Consultants do not take the opportunity to benefit from this license to print money.

“They need to attract a higher calibre of person to manage the NHS.”

There I agree. But they should also have knowledge of the way in which the NHS works. I believe I mentioned an incident in which the medical services manager tried to transfer a vebtilated patient to a medical ward during the night. Three staff on the ward to look after 27 patients. If the ventilated patient was admitted to the ward the trained nurse, or the senior student (in that case, myself) would have had to spend the whole time with the ventilated patient. How could anyone then be expected to receive an appropriate level of care? And the manager? Their previous managerial experience had been as a senior stock controller in a steel stockholders.

No debate, Mongu. Just a couple of points to consider.

Regards,

kev35

Thanks guys. I’m using CFS 1 and 2 but have problems When playing online. An example. Went up against Snapper the other night and with me going at full chat, and Snapper throttled right back he still pulled away from me at a rate of knots, even when using the same a/c. So, I think I must have a problem.

Also installed IL2. Looks great but doesn’t work. Takes an absolute age to load. and when you get to the menu screen the cursor does not do what you want it to. I can sit here twiddling my thumbs watching the cursor move randomly around the screen like a pointer on a ouija board.

To top it all, it wont even uninstall!

So, I’ll stick with CFS 1 and 2. Any thoughts on what might be causing me problems will be appreciated.

Regards,

kev35

“Kev35 don’t try to twist what i say to suit your petty argument about humour and war!!, i’m afraid its you who don’t get it pal! using those names as i did was not an advertisement, any intellectual would have seen that,”

That’s good coming from the ‘intellectual’ whose first identity here was banned for posting pictures of semi-naked women.

“Were not talking about armed forces ‘ere, have you caught on yet?? we are talking about the you’s and me’s sitting on their a$$es cracking jokes while their loved ones are in battle.”

What else should we do? Have you ever met a widow? Or a child whose father was killed in action? Or a brother? Or uncle? Have you ever taken the time to talk to any of these people? Or even just one? You yourself have tried to use humour in the past, and as Jonesy said you’re trying and failing to use it now. I think you should check humour and belligerence in the dictionary and obtain some perspective. I haven’t been in action just like yourself but I have seen a lot of death. I have lost friends as a result of being in combat in the Armed Forces. I do understand the link between death and humour.

Regards,

kev35

Originally posted by ad0nis
Hey ink, agearge & Kev35, i know, why don’t you tell a joke to the families of :-

Captain Philip Guy
Warrant Officer Mark Stratford
Major Jason Ward
Marine Sholto Hedenskog
Sergeant John Cecil
Lance Bombardier Llywelyn Evans
Sergeant Les Hehir
Operator Mechanic Ian Seymour
Flight Lt Kevin Main
Flight Lt Dave Williams

i’m sure they would find it hilarious Teee Heee :), you people don’t have a clue, you say humour is part of war!!! well that’s the funniest thing i have ever heard.

Ad0nis.

You really don’t understand do you? Only an imbecile would talk like you have here. Of course their families are grief stricken, would you expect them to be anything else? Humour is an important factor in the British Armed Forces, even in the most dire of circumstances. Read veteran’s stories or take the time to talk to them and you’ll find out just how important humour is. But give them a few months and you’ll find like most bereaved families it is the humour and the good times that were shared which are remembered and cherished. Today is Mother’s Day, my mother died three and a half years ago. Today, like every day I think of her often. But I don’t think of her lying in a hospital bed inexorably drawing her last breath. No, it is the great times we shared and that is filled with humour, even some of the bad times.

You wave the names of these brave men who have died in the service of their country like a banner in support of your argument, but perhaps you would like to rub it in personally to their families. You really are something.

But if you doubt how much I care about those who died in the service of their country, take a look at some of my posts on the flypast forum or come and visit me and take a look at some of the research I’ve done. Don’t imply that I don’t care about people.

Regards,

kev35

Moggy has a point. Why the silence from the webmaster? Surely a comment on this topic can’t be that bad? And as has already been pointed out they have received a certain amount of feedback on flypast as a result of this thread.

Regards,

kev35

Ad0nis, PII and Vortex.

War is full of humour, especially for those in combat and under stress. It is a release valve, if they didn’t laugh in certain situations an alternative emotion would almost certainly take over. If any of you took the time to speak to veterans you would find that before they tell you of the horrors they almost always tell you of the lighter side. I reccomend a book called “Don’t cry for me Sargeant Major.” It was a book written by a journalist who reported on the Falklands War and was full of anecdotes from the fighting men themselves. Perhaps this self-deprecating sense of humour is more of a British trait.

Before Ad0nis gets all bent out of shape and becomes all ‘PC’ on us he should remember that in his original incarnation he was removed from the forum for posting a photo of semi-naked women.

Regards,

kev35

Hi, Steve.

“The distinction between what I’m saying and what you’ve written is in context. What I described was the ability to arrive at the most honest and accurate appraisal of a situation you can without resorting simply to the automatic emotional reaction of the moment. What you are talking about, in most of the cases below, is heroism. Heroism isnt an automatic reaction based solely on emotion. Heroism is knowing what the dangers are, sizing up the situation and still going on regardless to do something you know is massively unwise.

I accept though our respective natures regarding this are so opposed that we will never agree on the issue!.”

I can see your point and to a certain extent I can understand it. “Heroism isn’t an action based solely on emotion.” In many cases I think it is. It is a split second response to an emotional stimulus or stimuli. How many citations carry the phrase ‘with no regard for their own safety’? In many cases the act of heroism is not a considered one. A friend of my late Uncle won the MM in Burma. Pinned down under heavy fire he took the initiative to charge the Japanese position. He always maintained that he didn’t consider it, he was upset that his friend had been killed and the emotional impact was such that he charged the enemy position. Now I understand that there are other acts of heroism where the actual consequences are considered in detail, and still the act is carried out.

To try to explain why I believe we are emotion-led, I’ll try to give an example or two. I have been involved in a considerable number of resuscitations following respiratory or cardiac arrests. By its very nature it is a distressing and emotional situation to be involved in. In some instances, the team’s understanding of the situation, and the direction taken is based largely on the emotional impact of the event on the patient and their family. Do you continue your efforts at resuscitation for up to an hour even though the situation is hopeless to allow the family to arrive? To show the family that all that could be done was done? Or, in that same situation terminate the resuscitation attempt early as there is no possibility of success? These are all emotional decisions.

I was involved in the care of a young girl who was dying because a drug overdose had destroyed her liver. It wasn’t a suicide attempt but a plea for attention. She died with her family at her bedside, I was there too. I have found it impossible to retain an emotional detachment from these people. Indeed, if I have tried I have found that I was unable to function with the same level of effectiveness. I was good at my job, but in no way could I detach myself emotionally from what I was involved in. And I miss it.

Sorry for waffling but it’s just my clumsy attempt to explain something for which I have no explanation. You’re right, I doubt we will ever agree but I respect your views and have enjoyed our discussions. I look forward to more.

Regards,

kev35