kev35RE: What happened in Jennin?
“The stories about dying babies is mostly typical liberal european propaganda crap. European press loves to makes the Israelis the bad
guys. I guess there is a tendency to support the “weak” in that conflict.”
Mostly, but not all. The incident I referred to happened and was reported widely in the British press. When a father cradles his dying baby in his arms and pleads at a roadblock to be let through, even on foot, what is the political, moral or ethical advantage in denying him assistance? As Israel considers itself to be a progressive nation and claims the moral highground in this situation I find it beyond belief that no-one would help. One would imagine the Israelis would have had access to medical help on call. If assistance had been granted the headlines about this incident may have read:
“Israeli soldiers save 5 day old Palestinian girl.”
Or is it better for her to have died now than have her become a suicide bomber in sixteen years because the situation is still the same?
Regards,
kev35
kev35RE: What happened in Jennin? (For JJ)
JJ
As an Israeli could you tell me what you believe the rationale is behind Israeli troops preventing a Palestinian reporter taking his critically ill baby to a hospital (see post 7)?
I look forward to your reply.
Regards
kev35
kev35RE: we have enough laws here….
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-04-02 AT 04:52 PM (GMT)]Gef,
It’s not strictly true to say that Europe has never had a problem with school killings. I can’t remember the date but there was a shooting at an infants and junior school in Dunblane Scotland where a number of children, into double figures, and I believe two teachers were murdered. The perpetrator was a licensed handgun user.
Regarding obtaining weapons illegally, it can’t be too difficult. A handgun of some sort is now the preferred weapon of drug dealers and armed robbers, at least here in the UK.
Garry B made an interesting point about gun law in NZ and the safe keeping of weapons. There will always be the determined individual who is psychotic who will abuse weapons in this way, but at least keeping personal weapons locked up safely will go a long way toward preventing incidents where a child has access to a weapon and ends up killing themselves or someone else by accident.
As for the right ‘to bear arms’ for one’s own protection, well, if I lived in a society where the only way to feel safe was to bear arms, I really don’t think I’d want to live in that society. In an ideal world the Police are there to ‘serve and protect’ as the Americans say, but I accept we’re not living in anything like an ideal world.
Regards,
kev35
PS I don’t know anything about technology to make a weapon recognise its user, but like all technology it would eventually become circumventable.
kev35RE: What happened in Jennin?
Thanks,
kev35
kev35RE: What happened in Jennin?
Gef,
I assume this is an excellent article, but could we have it in English Please? (My Dutch runs to about half a dozen words after seeing A Bridge Too Far.)
Regards,
kev35
kev35RE: What happened in Jennin?
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 20-04-02 AT 01:13 PM (GMT)]We’ll have to wait and see what’s found in Jenin, but I would be surprised if there were only 50 deaths and they were all terrorists. In any military operation there are almost inevitably civilian casualties. The problem lies in when the casualties inflicted on the innocent members of the civilian populatiom far outweighs the casualties among the terrorists.
On another note, can any one explain the rationale behind the Israelis holding an accredited Palestinian reporter at a roadblock for three hours while he needed to get his five day old premature baby with breathing difficulties to a hospital. This man must have been an obvious threat to the Israeli troops, or did they fear the baby was a terrorist? Not that it matters now as she died anyway. (By the way the hospital was just a few minutes drive away).Regardless of right or wrong, incidents like this can only bring shame to the Israeli Government.
It’s time to send in a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural peacekeeping force to effectively keep both sides separate. Surely it’s time for the killing to cease, then, perhaps, negotiations could begin.
Regards
kev35
kev35RE: Israel vs Palestine
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-04-02 AT 09:00 PM (GMT)]PII,
First of all, how dare you ruin my argument by at least partially agreeing with me! This will never do! (LOL)
“Good points about the college kids. They were a big part of
the problem.”
Thanks for that, although in many ways I don’t think they were as much part of the problem as they were a part of the solution. The protests were a strong example of people power at work.
“Mohammed Ali was a draft doger. Just because he didn’t go to Canada
doesn’t mean he wasn’t a draft dodger. He went to jail for
his beliefs. Wow. That doesn’t make me respect him anymore.”
Fair enough, you are sticking by your guns. We will have to agree to disagree on that one. However, I still don’t think you can call him a draft dodger as he stood up for what he believed in and was prepared to face the consequences. To me he deserves the utmost respect for having the courage of his convictions and not running away from responsibilities, even if they were being imposed upon him. I think from the tone of your posts, that in any other circumstance principled determination is a quality you admire.
“Personally Kev, you can expect to hear that news now. I’ve receive an Air Force ROTC scholarship and I’m going to try to become a pilot or navigator in the Air Force. I would never have applied for the scholarship or ROTC in general if I didn’t feel that serving my country was a good thing to do. It is good for me in two ways. 1. I can possibly to do my dream, which is fly. 2. I can serve my
country and try to help root out terrorism.”
What can I say to that? Nothing other than to wish you luck, success and happiness. Let’s hope you emerge as a pilot/nav in an air force whose only combat is flown in practice engagements.
Regards, and sincere best wishes for your chosen career.
kev35
kev35RE: next quiz
Glenn,
A small question, did you receive my email entry? Or, as I suspect I only got three questions right (pretty sure it’s the latter!!!))
Look forward to the next one.
Regards
kev
kev35RE: Israel vs Palestine
“Regarding Mohammed Ali, actually I’ve never had much respect for him because of the fact that he dodged the draft. To me, when someone deliberatly does something like that, it means they are a coward.”
Muhamad Ali did not dodge the draft. He was prepared to go to prison for his beliefs. How can you say this makes him a coward? Draft dodgers fled to Canada in the main. Those who you say went to college to at least get an education are the very people who were the strongest protesters against American involvement in Vietnam. In your alternate version of the universe I assume Kent State never happened!!
The American infantryman who served in Vietnam was not, in the main, some idealist who volunteered to travel to Vietnam to stop the spread of Communism and thereby protect their country. If so many young American men wished to fight in the war why was the draft ever introduced? The majority who went had no choice and when it came down to it they fought only for each other and for themselves, to survive this 365 day tour of duty they were expected to commit themselves to fully. This year in Vietnam was a far harsher sentence than any draft dodger ever received. For over fifty thousand young Americans it was a death sentence!
Post September 11th, many brave young American men and women volunteered for the services. Knowing your views on how right it is to defend your country, when can we expect to hear that you have volunteered to join in the war against terror?
Regards
kev35
kev35RE: RAF Badges
Moggy,
Not sure at all about which way the eagle should face but have you consiered that it may be some sort of sweetheart jewellery?
Regards
kev35
kev35RE:Info on named WW1 and WW2 pilots
Snoopy,
Just to add to what Moggy has said there is a CD ROM called Soldiers died in the Great War. This costs some £265 but is sometimes available at larger public libraries. On the CD is a section called Officers died which allows you to search for your man. There may be other information such as where they were born, lived and enlisted.
The PRO at Kew has all surviving service records from the Great War and those are available to search as microfilm copies which may be photocopied. Their website at http://www.pro.gov.uk can give you more details. I think service records from WWII remain in the hands of the RAF at Innsworthy I believe and I think there is a substantial cost for any search they undertake.
Hope this is all useful to you.
Regards
Kev35
kev35RE: Israel vs Palestine
“Think about what you’ve said though. If another American said that I’d be appalled.”
PII,
You must have a very low opinion of a number of your fellow countrymen. Back in the 60’s and 70’s the United States Armed Forces had a considerable problem with people refusing to fight. There were many genuine conscientious objectors and many others who chose to “dodge the draft” rather than join the services and fight in a war they neither believed in or wanted. Still others chose education in the hope the war would be over when they graduated. You may be appalled at these people, but because they are American I doubt that you would condemn them. I and many others can understand the sentiments shared by objectors, many thousands of Americans, Europeans, Asians, people from across the globe died to ensure they have the freedom to object.
I presume you would at least acknowledge Muhammad Ali as one of the greatest living Americans, a man of intense pride and dignity. He held the courage of his convictions about fighting in Vietnam to the point of going to jail. Would he be less respected by you because of his convictions or because of the mere fact that he is a Muslim?
Your world appears to be painted starkly in black and white. Perhaps unfortunately for me my world is a million shades of grey.
Regards, whether you respect my views or not,
kev35
kev35RE: Former RAF /RFC Yatesbury Wiltshire
Philo,
First of all, sorry for your loss.
As for Yatesbury I probably know less than you. However, I was interested in the mention of the WW1 graves. I would imagine it unlikely that any of those buried there died in combat unless it took place locally. Government policy was not to bring home the bodies of those killed overseas but to commemorate them where they died. It would be interesting to know whether any of them were involved in combat over England and would likely be worthy of further research.
Regards,
kev35
kev35RE: Bf-110
“I hope I can find some stories somewhere. I wanna know what it was like to fly the Bf-110 in combat.”
I’m sorry PII, but this statement is so crass. You, or I, are NEVER going to find out what it was like to fly the Bf-110 in combat.
From the people I have spoken to combat is the thing they are most reticent to talk about. They will happily spend hours telling you about their training, their social lives, the girls they loved, the games they played, the beauty of crossing the English coast at dawn after a night over Germany, knowing that safety and a warm bed were just minutes away, hopefully. They talk about the friends they have lost and their faces change, friendships which were brief but had the intensity of a passionate love affair, friendships the like of which you nor I are ever likely to forge.
…And then comes combat, the fear, the pain, the excitement, the exhilaration, sometimes guilt and even shame, pride, honour, duty. We read the words but will we ever truly understand them. Can we ever understand what it was like for the pilot new to combat? The simple word “BREAK!!” echoing in your headphones as your bowels turn to water, the thud of exploding cannon shells turning your future to oblivion.
I read, I listen, I learn, I appreciate and I try to understand, but I will never know those feelings. In many cases they are a secret which the holder takes to their grave. Combat is an intensely personal and private experience, with different meanings and consequences for each combatant. For those of us lucky enough and priveleged enough to have heard their stories have learned that the secret often lies in not only listening to what is said but being able to hear what isn’t said.
Sorry for rambling again.
Regards
kev35
PS PII, try going to a veterans meeting or parade, stay on the fringes and listen, if you get the opportunity tell them how much their service and sacrifice means to you. You might just come away a whole lot wiser.
kev35RE: War against the EVIL THAT IS THE PA
PII,
“Kev, what does my profile have to do with anything. When did hide it? What are you talking about? You looking for a cheap shot or something?”
No, I am not looking for a cheap shot at all, I do not need to. All I am asking is why you do not have a profile that forum members can read to learn a little more about you. Some may consider you are hiding behind a veil of anonymity for some reason. Is it because you do not have the courage of your convictions and therefore hide behind the name Phantom II? Most of us use our real identities as well as our user names. I just want to know whether I’m talking to a nuclear physicist or a high school junior or someone in between.
“I don’t think anyone should do anything. I think that Israel and the Palestinians should be left to themselves…. I feel the United States and the rest of the world should stay out of it.”
So, stop considering yourself an authority on the subject and refrain from all the pro Israeli anti Palestinian rhetoric you obviously believe adds something to the debate. Neither you or I are involved in this situation and therefore are not truly qualified to comment with even the resemblance of authority on this subject.
“Now I say, look at the facts that have been presented and quit jumping all over me because I don’t sympathize with the “innocent” Palestinians.”
It appears there is guilt on both sides in this situation. People only jump on you as hard as you jump on them. I’ve said this before, I really enjoy talking to you on various topics but at times you appear a little too earnest. You appear to desperately want us to believe what you say when in all reality you are only expressing an opinion. You have that right and you exercise it well, just don’t expect everyone to share the same opinion. This is after all how we learn, and why we are different. If you reaaly believe we should all share the same opinion may I suggest you try living under a tyrannical, totalitatian regime like that in Iraq.
Regards,
kev35
PS My intention is not to offend you in any way, I’m simply expressing my opinion.
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