Thanks for the translation Scar,
NP
it seems as the guidance is radar (possibly millimetre wave)
Honestly, i don’t know, as it’s not described in this picture, but most probably you’re right.
that it is glide/unpowered, couldn’t the guidance/sensor head portion be modified to fit the body of a atgm.
It mentions some “helicopter container” but i don’t know what exactly they mean by that. The only type of “helicopter containers” i know are traditional RBK free-fall dispensers.
Clearly the technology exists, just a matter of bringing it all together in one system. Also having a secondary beam riding capability would be very advantageous.
Depends on detection range of its seeker. Our traditional SPBE are working at very close range – hundreds of meters, just like their Western counterparts. Would be interesting to know what seeker they’re planning to use and its specs. But speaking honestly, instead of beam-rider, i would prefer INS+mmARH combination that will allow different flight-paths(top-attack), launch modes(LOAL) and true F&F.
Want me to find you some pictures of A-10s with dumb bombs and rockets? Are we really going to play that game? Yes, the A-10 can use the Maverick… more recently it has gained the ability to use a wide variety of smart weapons.
If you want to see the main weapon that will be replacing the Maverick you will find it is a glide bomb…
The best picture is a moving picture. Some cluster bombs from A-10, anyone?))
No, you express your disappointment and complain that whoever designs and whoever procures weapons doesn’t do what you wish they did.
It was my opiniion, whether you like it or not. And reading our defense-industry media, i can say for sure that many of our Russian designers, experts and military servicemen are expressing the same opinion. For decades.
No one is arguing that a F&F missile is not superior to a LOS missile. What is being argued is that one may not necessarily need one to be effective at what their mission is!
Just find those issues of MilParade. Before that, i see no point in further discussion.
Could someone pls translate the following image.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]245348[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]245349[/ATTACH]
Hi, and thx for your words.
This thing, on the picture, is a unified self-guided submunition meant to be used with various platforms: MLRS, choppers, airplanes and tactical missile systems.
But that was not platform specific rather than armament specific, you could easily convert a Hind into a dedicated anti-tank platform by introducing Ataka missiles (Mi-24VM or later Mi-35M).
You do realise that Mi-24 can’t carry APU-8/4-U and Mi-35/35M can carry only one APU-8/4-U so the total number of ATGMs it can carry is equal to the old Mi-24V/P/PN? Right?
Look, it is quite evident by now that you are just arguing for argument’s sake.
I expressed my opinion. You started to argue with it and brought a lot of misconceptions and even obvious misinformation as “arguments”. That’s how it was in reality. At first, i thought you sincerely are mistaken, but later, after all these nonsense about missiles, their working principles, our doctrine, tactics and helicopters primary tasks, it became obvious for me that you have little or even no knowledge but much butthurt.
You keep twisting and turning. That is not constructive or is it ever going to lead anywhere.
No, you. Better, find English versions of the “Military Parade” journal(issues 5.1996, 6.1996, 1.1999 and 4.1999) where the history of our attack-helicopters, their ATGMs and reasons why KBP has started to work on Hermes were explained pretty well by Hermes and Vikhr designers. This will help you much in the getting rid of all your misconceptions.
Just as the fact that you think people thought the earth was flat? You failed to read the actual content of your link! Is that supposed to show how you surmise things?
Scholars? No. But many people? Yes. Which was reflected in many ancient religions and arts.
24s were designed to carry troops-hence assault- the other two can’t carry troops, and they are not light scout helicopters. That makes them anti tank gunships by favour of the focus of their armaments. Of course they are meant to kill tanks. What else would they be made to kill?
you will find that the the way US doctrine uses AH-64’s is as ambush predators of opportunity, not as front line attackers. Desert combat was a bit different and skewed people’s perception of how a helicopter fights.
Once more, Mi-24 was described as assault helicopter, while Mi-28 and Ka-50 were anti-TANK helicopters. Coz their primary role was in the killing of tanks and other armour. Your abstract words won’t change this fact.
By allowing russian 30 year old missiles riding someone else’s laser beam, negates the need for a radar and still reduces helo exposure to AA threats. Why don’t you bring this up instead?
Wait. WHAT? Do i understand it correct that now you’re implying that our beam-riders can be(even in theory) guided by external units??? Oh…say, please say that i misunderstood you! Coz otherwise – this means that you COMPLETELY don’t understand how Ataka and Vikhr work, as well as any other beam rider, be it Kornet or our tank guided-missiles.
Sh!t. I knew it’s bad, but i couldn’t imagine that it’s SO bad…I’m quiting this dispute, enough of this nonsense.
People never thought the Earth is flat
and I have seen a longbow system up close and I have seen Apaches practising on using it.
Sorry, but the fact that you have seen something, have nothing to do with your knowledge about it. For example, you were really sure that main role our attack-choppers isn’t anti-tank role. But you’re wrong – that’s an obvious fact, supported by historical documents and pretty well described in our technical literature. So, how can you seriously be discussing this subject if you weren’t aware of that well-known fact?! It clearly shows how little you know about our doctrine, helicopters, history of their development, their tasks and tactics. And this fact has nothing to do with my attitude. That’s just a fact.
You start to remind me of a driver riding in a wrong lane, claiming that everyone is an idiot driving in a wrong lane, except him..if there are so many people who obviously “don’t understand your simple facts”, then maybe it’s time to reconsider…
Or may be you should read something on subject, coz all what i see ATM is a few people with many misconceptions and without even basic knowledge, so i was forced to explain how things work in reality – for example, how Longbow weapons-system works. After all, I heard that many years ago many people were 100% sure that Earth is flat and lies on elephants. But their number didn’t change the fact that they were wrong.
That is the function of the Tank as well. How one uses a tank is completely dependent on their philosophy of war. The Apache was designed to STOP by itself (obviously a squadron of them) an armoured advance. An Apache was able to take out (in ideal conditions) 16 enemy tanks. US if I am not mistaken has 24 ship battalions. that means that a US battalion can -in ideal conditions- take out 384 first line of attack advancing armoured vehicles, this is pretty much an entire armoured division! On the same approach, the longbow was developed and added, when the available defences were dangerous enough to put the effectiveness of this approach in jeopardy.
I don’t think you will find that in the 76 council resolution!
And i don’t think this change the next facts:
1) Anti-tank/armour role is a primary role for our helicopters since original Mi-28 and Ka-50.
2) We’re not USSR and don’t have its armoured-hordes so we simply can’t flood the battlefield with them anymore.
3) Given this fact, the anti-tank role of our helicopters now is even more significant than it was during the Soviet times. But they’re still using old Soviet ATGMs and that’s an obvious problem in 2016, 40 years later.
4) Modern AD-systems ‘slightly’ evolved since 1976.
Instead, the russian attack helos, are just that. Attack helos! Nothing more, nothing less, and adhering to russian doctrine, pretty damn effective at attacking.
That Resolution says otherwise. No matter what you think. That’s why helicopters designed under it were described as ‘protivotankoviy vertolet'(anti-tank helicopter) and both of them were equipped with a cheap but numerous Vikhr and Ataka ATGMs, unlike Mi-24 that was described as ‘shturmovoy vertolet'(assault helicopter).
It has nothing to do with present day developments. infact by over investing in small expensive missiles for attack helicopter. the critcal resources from longer ranged standoff weopons for fighter aircraft can decrease. only fighter aircraft has the engine power for jamming and strike weopons to saturate battlefield.
It has ALL to do with it, coz it was, and IS, the MAIN task of our attack helicopters since the Mi-28 and Ka-50 families birth, that were designed according with that Resolution. Especially in the light of the fact that we’re NOT USSR and we don’t have all these tank hordes that USSR used to have. As well as the fact that since 1976, AD systems didn’t stand still and progressed greatly. Especially Western ones.
That’s why in 1990’s KBP started to work on Hermes but failed to find the funding from the MoD that couldn’t afford even the fuel for regular training flights in 1990’s, and still can’t find the money for many needed things, even today. This is reality of my country – we faced economical collapse, aggravated by our traditional technological lag in the field of electronics and electro-optics.
Why?
I already explained – why. Many times. If someone can’t understand a simple fact that decreasing time in attack combined with increasing number of targets you can fire at and destroy, simultaneously, leads to increase of effectiveness and combat survivability, then…meh.
Russian attack helos are designed as support platforms to the armoured columns. They were meant to assist the armoured advancement, not take out the opposing armoured forces.
Wrong. According to the Soviet Minister’s Council Resolution, released on 16 December 1976, that gave a start to development of Ka-50 and Mi-28 – the main objective of the new helicopter was described as “destroying tanks and armoured vehicles in the front-line”.
This is hictorical fact.
putting expensive electronics and missiles will not make attack helo more effective as they have limited range (itself inviting danger to the base), payload, speed, sensors. thats the point Scar not understanding. there is real example of Yemen.
Pure nonsense.