FalconDudeI’ve often thought this would make an interesting air defence concept – arm either bombers or AWACS platforms with novel long range AAM with at least the same range as the AWACS detection radar and you have yourself a very potent air defence platform. Coupled with IFR, it could provide a long endurance, mobile “SAM in the sky”, so to speak.
AWACS and Bombers luck the ability (equipment) to direct missiles to a target. Detecting, tracking, targeting and directing a missile to the target are all very different things.
FalconDudeI have seen no photos of the US-based S-300 systems, but the West has access to other examples. Somewhere in my files, I have photos of an S-300PMU-1 firing conducted by NATO. It is almost certainly the same system that the Israelis have flown training missions against.
Ahem, the NATO country you seem to hint at, did indeed conduct firings of said system with extreme success. However has vehemently denied that the Israelis flew against the “live” system, but rather against ‘other smaller’ systems.
FalconDudeSimple physics. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only converted from one form into another, or generated from matter according to E = mc^2. Radio wave is light. Light can be reflected or absorbed. If absorbed, light converts into heat. F-22 may have less RCS than F-15, but not by much. F-22 reflects light pretty well. You can see it with your eyes because it reflects light into your eyes. You can see it. So can radar.
As for stealth. That’s marketing gimmick. Stealth has never been proven in the real world. Not once.
Ultraviolet is also light. Can you see it?
FalconDudeWhy is everything about Russia to you? Syria is not Russian territory, the operation is limited in scope and goal.
The ones getting screwed right now are the Kurds.
+1
FalconDudeWell, Reuters is reporting Turkish troops are conducting operations in Syria against the Kurds with US support implied and given through Air cover, so there you have it. Rhetoric as usual.
FalconDudeThat effort has already been made.. now, after the Turkish military has been thoroughly “cleaned”, any future coup will be ten times harder to achieve.. Think about it..
I do not think this latest coup was a legitimate effort. The US has a lot of experience to not come up with such a weak mess.
FalconDudeWon’t happen.. Even if the current shift of Turkey towards Russians would continue at the same pace, we would not see THK being completely disbanded and rebuilt rather than a parallel structure being built up alongside the existing F-16 – TFX lineage. I imagine that the F-35 would still be offered, albeit without any much vaunted tech transfer which could fed up Turks enough to make them look elsewhere..
It will be very interesting to watch this unfold.
Price tag is the main obstacle and will remain so.. For all intents and purposes, the F-35 is the most expensive fighter money can buy and I somehow have doubts that this was originally the intention..
Do you honestly believe that the US will allow Turkey to get the F-35, its main (and only) front line fighter for the next 40 years, bristling with highly sensitive technology if there is any chance that technology will be “looked over” by the Russians in a potential partnership of the type you guys describe?
And since I don’t see Turkey not knowing this, nor the Americans not delivering the F-35, and the Turks not getting less that 100 to 150 F-35s in their continuing quest to make the jump from a minor regional power to a regional super power to a full blown superpower; I don’t see this Russia-Turkey fling getting as far as described.
It is far easier for the US to put its mind into toppling a certain politician and altering the status quo of Turkish politics, rather than allowing Turkey to get away from the stable.
think about it.
FalconDudeTurkey is way too early to tell.. by the time things have worked out in this direction (if, at all) it might be the T-50 rather than any Su-30..
F-35 will sell.. it doesn’t really fit the doctrine and structure of most users but being the only American-made alternative on the market has a quality on its own..
Lads!, what are you talking about? Turkey is extensively entangled with LM on both the F-16 and the F-35. 90% of the Turkish arsenal is fairly to very modern and 99% of it western! It is notoriously difficult to integrate western and Russian made hardware and turkey’s western hardware has quite a few decades of life left.
Turkey is planning to develop its own fighter and it’s only primary concern would be how to make this a reality. It’s got the size and the economy to do it and veering away from western suppliers is not to its best interests for technology. If not for the designs themselves for the manufacturing technologies and standards at least.
FalconDudeI wouldn’t dismiss any theory at the moment.
Nic
Absolutely. No theory, no matter how far fetched is off the table. Nonetheless; Turkey will not be leaving NATO on its own accord. Ever.
FalconDudeHey Guys
I just came across this video. I am not sure if someone posted it before, I don’t remember seeing it. Can anyone more or less translate some stuff? There are some bold statements made through this video, especially when it comes to various missiles being fired and then neutralised!
FalconDudeBelieve me, Turkey wouldn’t be the last one.
Even the same american people is tired about interventism, so they would have an easy road to walk on.
Between Turkey and Russia there would be many thing to settle down and probably the former wouldn’t like to abandon NATO at the moment but the fundamentals are now taken a definitive turn with Erdogan moving fully into a more autoritary form of government, so no matter the time it will be needed they (and Iran also) would IMHO find themselves at the same side.
No other country has benefited from NATO membership as much as Turkey. Turkey will be the LAST country to ever leave NATO.
FalconDudeAnd your point in typing THIS in this topic? As irrelevant as it gets, Turkey has every right to act on a issue relevant to Turkish-Greek sea borders; on everywhere else such problems are handled by diplomacy. Greece offered none, and Turkey say casus belli IF Greeks say fait accompli. How this makes Turks hostile cavemen and Greeks good guys? If some country had found an excuse to deny Russian transition from Barents Sea and used this excuse to block Northern Fleet from reaching open seas, without even consulting Russia diplomatically, Russians would have acted againist that too. Had you’ve been Greek, I would have respected the opinion from your POV, and shared our POV, but since you are not, I won’t discuss such topics with a Turkish-hater idiots who has no knowledge, emphaty nor objectivity, I am sorry.
Oh you don’t have to be sorry. This is a forum. The fact that each other’s views are expressed for all to see is enough. We are judged by what we say.
And by the way, criticism is not hating anyone. I couldn’t care less to be honest about what other people do or are. But when I am presented with facts, histories and events, I am allowed to think and arrive at a conclusion. And besides..this is a forum!
By the way, not to drag this out, but within a few lines you managed to put through the Turkish side’s position. Just for the record, Greece has offered to use the equidistance principle as described internationally for those islands that cause Turkey concerns, but Turkey has refused to do so. Greece has even offered international mediation, Turkey has again said no.
And proof of your nonsense?
Any proof has been made available by the international press on multiple occasions. Google will suffice in this case.
Look, I don’t like AKP or Erdogan for a dozen obvious reasons, but man said he will resign if anyone proves any assistance or cooperation with Islamic state. Same repeated by our minister of foreign affairs. And all russians did was to show some photos of trucks from Syria, which later turned out to be the trucks of Iraqi Pesmergah in Iraq (by their own acknowledgement), and Russians implied those trucks go to a refinary, which is actually owned by Koc family; one of the most secular, anti-religious and AKP-hater families in Turkey. Russian “proof” became a laughing stock even for AKP-haters for weeks, myself included, and even pitied by some as an act of desperation of talking too much BS while having so little to back it up, they had to openly LIE to the entire world.
Are you sure you should be saying this online at this time? I mean we may have different views, but I would hate you being dragged in some cell with the accusation of being against the regime and an impending death penalty above your head!
Other than that, there are plenty of hot air and empty talks, and, again, no proof back it up. Only falsified proofs exist, like the Russian BS I’ve mentioned, some photos by some US “analyst” showing a Turkish soldier IS terrorist side by side, Turkish soldier has pre-2009 land forces army uniform -which can be bought online- in a picture taken in 2015 and an AK-47 that is never used by Turkish Land Forces.
Answered above
And, again, your point in this nonsense?
Well, the very question of this thread implied political underlays. So.. political goings on and long standing policies are what we are hinting here.
Nonetheless.. whether it is nonsense or not, is proven beyond doubt by your… heated reaction. 😉
FalconDudeHundreds of our most modern tanks is just waiting for the never coming day Greeks invade Turkey.
Funny how Greeks also have their hundreds of considerably expensive tanks waiting for the -imminent according to the Turkish rhetoric- day those Leo A4s will invade the Greek North as a pincher move to divide Greek forces between the north and the islands that the Turkish forces will invade since they dispute, well, pretty much everything! Let’s not forget that there are a couple still standing casus belli existing in the world and the one is the one Turkey issued to Greece!!! so …
And let’s stop pretending Turkey didn’t support ISIS. They only reason Turkish forces are on the borders with Syria is so the Kurds don’t get their own Country.
Somehow the notion of National identity escapes the turkish policies since the Ottoman times.
FalconDude“no Bill Sweetman (ex Aviation Week, but now gone over to the dark side of The Force)”
where is the dark side of the force ?
He hates the F-35 if I am not mistaken.
FalconDudeHow on earth did that thing take off? There doesn’t seem to be enough ground clearance for a take off.
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