Sounds to me like a classic tactical interceptor role!

…so why did the US develope BVR capability to F-16?

1. No, an interceptor is tasked with intercepting an incoming, i.e. “meet” it fast and destroy it or divert it (mission kill)

2. The US developed BVR capability for the F-16 because 80% of the potential customers couldn’t afford an air superiority fighter and needed that role fulfilled.

Well, IMHO, none: After Su-27s F-15s made their BVR duel in the fight for air superiory, F-16s were to encounter escorting Su-27s along with Su-24s, Su-25s, MiG-29s were to encounter escorting F-15s along with F-111s and A-10s.

Right, I did a quick internet search for the NATO order of battle in the 80’s. Going for the late 80’s (late 1989) the total number of F-16s in Europe (including USAF stationed aircraft) was 762.

That is not a small number , but I wonder how many of those were around during the mid eighties, ie 1984-5. Should we say about half that? i.e. about 400 or so F-16s in Europe during the mid 80’s.

How many MiG-29s during those times? Does anyone have a figure?

US AIR FORCE – EUROPE (USAFE)

1. US 3rd Air Force HQ – Mildenhall, United Kingdom:

a. 10th TFW – Alconbury, UK:
1. 509th TFS: 18 A-10
2. 511th TFS: 18 A-10
3. 1st TRS: 18 RF4C
b. 20th TFW – Upper Heyford, UK:
1. 55th TFS: 24 F-111E
2. 77th TFS: 24 F-111E
3. 79th TFS: 24 F-111E
c. 48th TFW “Liberty” – Lakenheath, UK:
1. 492nd TFS: 18 F-111F
2. 493rd TFS: 18 F-111F
3. 494th TFS: 18 F-111F
4. 495th TFS: 18 F-111F (training unit for wing)
d. 81st TFW – Bentwaters, UK:
1. 78th TFS – RAF Woodbridge: 18 A-10
2. 91st TFS – RAF Woodbridge: 18 A-10
3. 92nd TFS: 18 A-10
4. 511th TFS: 18 A-10
e. 527th TFTS – Bentwaters, UK: 16 F-5E (aggressor training)
f. 513th Airborne Command & Control Wing – Mildenhall, UK
1. 10th ACCS: 4 EC/WC-135
f. 501st Tactical Missile Wing (TMW) – RAF Greenham Common, 24 Launchers, UK: 96 BGM-109G GLCM
g. 303rd Tactical Missile Wing (TMW) – RAF Molesworth, UK: 16 Launchers, 64 BGM-109G GLCM (withdrawn in 1989)
h. 95th Reconnaissance Squadron, 17th Reconnaissance Wing – RAF Alconbury: 13 TR-1A (not technically subordinate to 3rd AF)

Note 1: 527th converted to 12 F-16C Block 32 starting Jan 89; assigned to 81st TFW

Note 2: 20th TFW had 70 F-111Es, so units not likely at full strength listed above, according to some sources, but FI puts number at 76. For F-111F, FI gives total of 85 in UK.

2. US 17th Air Force HQ – Sembach, FRG:

a. 36th TFW – Bitburg AFB, FRG:
1. 22nd TFS: 24 F-15C
2. 53rd TFS: 24 F-15C
3. 535th TFS: 24 F-15C
b. 50th TFW – Hahn AFB, FRG:
1. 10th TFS: 24 F-16C Block 25
2. 313th TFS: 24 F-16C Block 25
3. 496th TFS: 24 F-16C Block 25
c. 52nd TFW – Spangdahlem AFB, FRG:
1. 23rd TFS: 12 F-16C, 12 F-4G Wild Weasel
2. 81st TFS: 12 F-16C, 12 F-4G Wild Weasel
3. 480th TFS: 12 F-16C, 12 F-4G Wild Weasel
d. 86th TFW – Ramstein AFB, FRG:
1. 512th TFS: 24 F-16C Block 30
2. 516th TFS: 24 F-16C Block 30
e. 32nd TFS – Soesterberg AFB, Holland: 24 F-15C
f. 26th Tactical Reconnaissance Wing (TRW) – Zweibrucken, FRG:
1. 38th TRS: 22 RF-4C
g. 66th Electronic Countermeasures Wing (ECW) – Upper Heyford, UK:
1. 42nd ECS: 18 EF-111A
2. 43rd ECS: 6 EC-130H Compass Call
h. 38th Tactical Missile Wing – Wuescheim AFB, FRG: 20 Launchers, 80 BGM-109G GLCM
i. 485th Tactical Missile Wing – Florennes AFB, BE: 12 Launchers, 48 BGM-109G GLCM
j. 486th Tactical Missile Wing – Woensdrecht AB, NL: 12 Launchers, 48 BGM-109G GLCM

3. US 16th Air Force HQ – Torrejon, Spain:

a. 401st TFW – Torrejon, Spain:
1. 612th TFS: 24 F-16C Block 30
2. 613th TFS: 24 F-16C Block 30
3. 614th TFS: 24 F-16C Block 30
b. 487th TMW – Comiso AFB, Italy: 28 Launchers, 112 BGM-109G GLCM

4. Other Units

a. 322nd Airlift Division – Ramstein AB, FRG
1. 37th Tactical Airlift Squadron, 435th Tactical Airlift Wing: 16 C-130E
2. 10th Military Airlift Squadron, 608th Military Airlift Group: 18 C-23A Sherpa

ROYAL BELGIUM AIR FORCE

1. No. 1 Wing – Beauvechain, Belgium:

a. No. 349 Squadron “Mace”: 24 F-16A
b. No. 350 Squadron “Ambiorix”: 24 F-16A

2. No. 2 Wing – Florennes, Belgium:

a. No. 1 Squadron “Stingers”: 24 F-16A
b. No. 2 Squadron “Comet”: 24 F-16A

3. No. 3 Wing – Liege, Belgium:

a. No. 8 Squadron: 36 Mirage 5BA
b. No. 42 Squadron: 22 Mirage 5BR (Recon)

4. No. 9 Wing – St Truiden, Belgium:

a. No. 7 Squadron: 16 Alpha Jets
b. No. 33 Squadron: 16 Alpha jets

5. No. 10 Wing – Kleine-Brogel, Belgium:

a. No. 23 Squadron “Devils”: 24 F-16A
b. No. 31 Squadron “Tigers”: 24 F-16A

6. OCU “Vulture”: F-16B (may have also had Mirage 5BD)

7. Nike-Hercules Units:
a. 9th Missile Wing – Grefrath, FRG: 18 Nike Hercules
b. 13th Missile Wing – Duren, FRG: 18 Nike Hercules

8. 6 Air Defense Battalions: 6 I-Hawk launchers each

Note 1: Belgium built 160 F-16s at its SABCA plant between 1978 and 1991. The first order for 96 F-16A and 20 F-16B was completed in 1985. Deliveries on the second order of 40 F-16A and 4 F-16B were begun in 1987 and completed in 1991. An estimated 136 total were in inventory by the end of 1989.

Note 2: Belgium originally took delivery of 63 Mirage 5BA, 16 2-seat Mirage 5BD, and 27 photo-recon Mirage 5BR. An estimated 38 Mirage 5BA, 20 Mirage 5BR, and 16 Mirage 5BD were in inventory in 1989. Flight International reports that 72 various Mirage Vs were still in service in 1988 and scheduled for upgrades.

Note 3: Belgium also had 31 Alpha Jet 1B, 16 Fouga CM170 Magister, and 30 SIAI-Marchetti SF.260M in training or operational conversion units.

ROYAL DANISH AIR FORCE

1. Eskadrille 723: 16 F-16
2. Eskadrille 725: 20 F-35 Draken, 5-6 TF-35 Draken
3. Eskadrille 726: 16 F-16
4. Eskadrille 727: 16 F-16
5. Eskadrille 729: 20 RF-35 Draken, 5-6 TF-35 Draken
6. Eskadrille 730: 16 F-16
7. Luftvaernafdeling Ost (Air Defense Command East?) – Zealand (around Copenhagen):
a. Eskadrille 541 – Sigerslev airstation: 6 I-HAWK launchers
b. Eskadrille 542: 6 I-HAWK launchers
c. Eskadrille 543 – Sigerslev airstation: 6 I-HAWK launchers
d. Eskadrille 544: 6 I-HAWK launchers
8. Luftvaernafdeling Vest – Jutland:
a. Eskadrille 531 – Odense-Hjorup: 6 I-HAWK launchers
b. Eskadrille 532 – Odense-Hjorup: 6 I-HAWK launchers
c. Eskadrille 533 – Skrydstrup Airbase: 6 I-HAWK launchers
d. Eskadrille 534 – Karup Airbase: 6 I-HAWK launcers

Note 1: F-16s were a mix of As and Bs. Denmark took delivery of 46 F-16A and 12 F-16B between 1980 and 1983. A further 8 F-16A and 4 F-16B were delivered from 1987-1991. About 60 were available in 1989. Given those numbers, it is unlikely that the 4 Danish F-16 squadrons were often at full strength.

Note 2: The Draken numbers come from Scramble. They may not reflect attrition losses. Denmark initially took delivery of 20 F-35s, 20 RF-35s (fighters with recon capabilities) and 11 TF-35s (also combat capable). An additional 7 F-35s were eventually acquired from Sweden, but may have been for parts and not for use as line aircraft. IISS says at least 41 were still in service in early 1989. Janes says 16 F-35, 18 RF-35, and 9 TF-35 in early 1990, but that may represent some retirements.

Note 3: The locations for the HAWK batteries are taken from this excellent history of NIKE missiles in Europe. They were mobile units and would deploy as needed during wartime. The Air Force also had 36 Bofors L/70 40mm towed for air base defense.

GREEK AIR FORCE (Polemiki Aeroporia)

Data is from a variety of sources; please note that Greek holdings of aircraft were much larger than those listed assigned to the squadrons below. Whether the remainder were in storage, conversion/training units, or out of service is unknown.

1. 110 Pterix (Wing) – Larissa, Greece:

a. 337 Fighter/Bomber Mira (Squadron): 18 F-4E
b. 347 Attack Mira: 18 A-7H
c. 348 Tactical Recon Mira: 5 RF-4E, ? RF-84F, 8 RF-5A
d. 344 Recon Mire: 12 RF-104 (from SU Rev of FMP, see below)

2. 111 Pterix – Nea Ankhialos, Greece:

a. 341 “Asos” Fighter/Bomber Mira: 14 F-16C/D
b. 343 “Asteri” Fighter/Bomber Mira: 23 F-5A (may have been part of 113 Pterix)
c. 349 “Kronos” Fighter/Bomber Mira: 14 F-16C /D
d. 351 Figher Mire: 20 F-5A&B

3. 114 Pterix – Tanagra, Greece:

a. 332 Fighter Mira: 14 F1-CG
b. 334 Fighter Mira – Heraclion, Greece (Crete): 14 F1-CG
c. 342 Fighter Mira: 14 Mirage 2000C

4. 115 Pterix – Souda Bay, Greece:

a. 340 Attack Mira: 18 A-7H
b. 345 Attack Mira: 18 A-7H ,5 TA-7H

5. 117 Pterix – Andravida, Greece:

a. 338 Fighter/Bomber Mira: 18 F-4E
b. 339 Fighter/Bomber Mira: 18 F-4E

6. 118 Pterix – Araxos, Greece: (may have bene 116 Pterix?)

a. 333 Fighter Mira: 14 Mirage 2000C
b. 335 Fighter Mira: 18 F-104G
c. 336 Fighter Mira: 18 F-104G

7. 113 Pterix – Combat training wing

8. 30th Air Transport Command

a. 112 Pterix – Eleusis
1) 345th Transport Squadron: Noratlas
2) 355th Transport Squadron: CL-215, YS-11A
3) 356th Transport Squadron: C-130H
4) ? Transport Squadron: C-47

b. Separate Helicopter Squadrons – Eleusis
1) 357th Squadron: CH-47, UH-19D
2) 358th Squadron: Bell 47G, AB-212
3) 359th Squadron: AB-205, AB-206
(may have been one more)

9. 31st Air Training Command

a. 120 Pterix – Kalamata
1) 361st Training Mira: 25 T-37B&C
2) 362nd Training Mira: 18 T-2E
3) 363rd Training Mira: 18 T-2E

b. 121 Pterix – Dhekelia
1) 360th Training Mira: 20 T-41

10. 3 SAM Squadrons: 12 Nike-Hercules each
(note: The March 1989 Soviet Review of Foreign Military Press says there is one battalion (350th SAM battalion) with 4 batteries of 9 launchers each)

11. Other Units

a. 353rd Land-Based Patrol Mira: HU-16B Albatross

Note 1: Greek aircraft holdings: data from IISS and Janes; * entries are conflicting data from Flight International’s World’s Air Forces 1989.
Previous Deliveries
The Hellenic Air Force originally acquired 45 F-104Gs and 6 TF-104Gs. 57 F-104Gs, 22 RF-104Gs, and 21 TF-104Gs were later acquired from other NATO members, some for use for spare parts and others held in reserve. The type served until the early 1990s. (80 F-104G*, 10 TF-104G*)
40 F1-CGs were delivered to the HAF between 1975 and 1978 and served with the two squadrons above (33 F-1CB*).
36 F-4Es were delivered via FMS through the end of 1974, of which 7 had been lost by 1989. An additional 20 F-4Es were acquired between 1976 and 1978, of which 6 were lost by 1989. Consequently, it is likely the F-4E units were not up to the strength listed above. (48 F-4E*)
8 RF-4E were delivered, 3 were lost by 1989. (7 RF-4E*)
60 A-7Hs and 5 TA-7Hs were delivered starting in 1975. At least 56 total were still in inventory in 1989. A-7H was similar to US A-7D. (46 A-7H*, 5 TA-7H*)
114 F-5As, 34 RF-5As, and 20 F-5Bs were delivered to Greece by 1988. In addition, 16 F-5A and 4 F-5B were transferred from Jordan in 1989. At least 100 (and probably many more) of all type were still in service in 1989. 99 were still in service in the mid-1990s according to CFE declarations. In addition to the 20 assigned to 343 Mira, it is likely that 341 and 349 Mira still had significant numbers of F-5s in service in addition to their F-16s. (53 F-5A*, 10 NF-5A/B*, 8 RF-5A*, 8 RF-5B)
Ongoing Deliveries
34 F-16C and 6 F-16D were delivered between November 1988 and October 1989.
36 Mirage 2000EGs and 4 Mirage 2000BGs were ordered in 1985. At least 36 total were in inventory in 1989.

Other Fixed Wing Aircraft: 8 HU-16B Albatross (marine recon), 12 C-130H Hercules, 17+ C-47, 10+ N.2501 Noratlas, 12 Do.28D Skyservant, 12 CL-215 (firefighting), 19 Cessna T-41a, 31 T-37B/C, 36 T-2E Buckeye

Other Rotary Wing Aircraft: 13 AB-205A, 2 AB-206A, 20 Nardi-Hughes 500, 4 Bell 47G, 3 Bell 212, 5 CH-47C

Some information from the March 1989 Soviet Review of Foreign Military Press, particularly relating to traiing and transport organizations

ROYAL NETHERLANDS AIR FORCE

1. No. 306 Reconnaissance Squadron – Volkel, NL: 18 F-16A(Recon mission w/Orpheus recon pods)
2. No. 311 Fighter/Bomber Squadron – Volkel, NL: 18 F-16A (Trained in nuclear weapons delivery)
3. No. 312 Fighter/Bomber Squadron – Volkel, NL: 18 F-16A
4. No. 313 Fighter/Bomber Squadron – Twenthe, NL: 18 F-16A
5. No. 314 Fighter/Bomber Squadron – Gilze-Rijen, NL: 18 NF-5A
6. No. 315 Fighter/Bomber Squadron – Twenthe, NL: 18 F-16A
7. No. 316 Fighter/Bomber Squadron – Eindhoven, NL: 18 NF-5A
8. No. 322 Fighter/Bomber Squadron – Leeuwarden, NL: 18 F-16A
9. No. 323 Fighter/Bomber Squadron – Leeuwarden, NL: 18 F-16A
10. 148th TFTS (AZ National Guard) – Tucson, AZ: 10 F-16 (training unit)
10. Air Defense Squadrons – deployed to defend airbases:
a. No. 119 Squadron – Leeuwarden, NL: 3 I-Hawk Launchers, 9 40L70 AA Guns, 3 Flycatcher radar
b. No. 221 Squadron – Soesterberg, NL: 3 I-Hawk Launchers, 9 40L70 AA Guns, 3 Flycatcher radar
c. No. 222 Squadron – Twenthe, NL: 3 I-Hawk Launchers, 9 40L70 AA Guns, 3 Flycatcher radar
d. No. ? Squadron – Volkel, NL: 3 I-Hawk Launchers, 9 40L70 AA Guns, 3 Flycatcher radar
e. No. ? Squadron – De Peel, NL: 3 I-Hawk Launchers, 9 40L70 AA Guns, 3 Flycatcher radar
f. No. ? Squadron – Nieuw Milligen CRC, NL: 3 I-Hawk Launchers, 9 40L70 AA Guns, 3 Flycatcher radar
g. No. 121 Squadron –Glize-Rijen, NL: 3 I-Hawk Launchers, 9 40L70 AA Guns, 3 Flycatcher radar
11. 3rd Guided Weapons Group (Groep Geleide Wapens) – Blomberg, FRG:
a. No. 324 Squadron – Aerzen-Laatzen: 6 I-Hawk Launchers
b. No. 326 Squadron – Bad Meinberg/Horn: 6 I-Hawk Launchers
c. No. 327 Squadron – Schwelentrup: 5 Patriot Launchers (from I-Hawk, ’88)
d. No. 328 Squadron – Schwalenberg: 6 I-Hawk Launchers
12. 5th Guided Weapons Group (Groep Geleide Wapens) – Stolzenau, FRG:
a. No. 500 Squadron – Borstel: 6 I-Hawk Launchers
b. No. 501 Squadron – Winzlar: 6 I-Hawk Launchers
c. No. 502 Squadron – Hoysinghausen: 5 Patriot Launchers (from I-Hawk, 4/88)
d. No. 503 Squadron – Reinsdorf: 5 Patriot Launchers (from I-Hawk, ’88)

Note 1: The Dutch Air Force took delivery of 177 F-16As and 36 F-16Bs, the last being delivered in February 1990. At least 188 (and possibly as many as 195) were available during 1989.
Note 2: The Dutch Air Force originally took delivery of 75 NF-5As and 30 NF-5Bs in the late 1960s and early 1970s. At least 46 NF-5As were still in inventory in 1989; additionally, some (14? -5Bs) were in an OCU squadron.
Note 3: The Guided Weapons Squadrons also had 100 FIM-92A Stingers divided among them for point defense, although a total of 675 had been ordered. The Dutch Air Force also had 72 40L70 AA guns in total, plus 26 Flycather radar systems. AF Inventory also included 72 I-Hawk PIP-II, -III launchers total and 20 Patriot launchers with 160 missiles. It is possible that the airfield defense squadrons had six launchers instead of three.

ROYAL NORWEGIAN AIR FORCE

1. 330 Skvadron – Orland, with detachments at Bodo, Banak and Rygge: 10 Sea King Mk43 (SAR)
2. 331 Fighter/Bomber Skvadron – Bodo, Norway: 16 F-16A
3. 332 Fighter/Bomber Skvadron – Rygge, Norway: 16 F-16A (OCU)
4. 333 Skvadron – Andoya: 6 P-3C Orion
5. 334 Fighter/Bomber Skvadron – Bodo: 16 F-16A
6. 335 Skvadron – Gardermoen: 6 C-130H
7. 336 Fighter/Bomber Skvadron – Rygge: 20 NF-5 (F-5A)
8. 337 Skvadron – Bardufoss: 6 Lynx Mk86
9. 338 Fighter/Bomber Skvadron – Orland: 16 F-16A
10. 339 Skvadron – Bardufoss: 12 Bell 412
11. 717 Skvadron: 3 Falcon 20ECM
12. 719 Skvadron: 3+ DHC6 Otter, Bell 412
13. 720 Skvadron – Rigge: 12 UH-1B
14. 4 SAM Batteries: Nike-Hercules – total of 128 launchers
a) Aster Battery – southwest of Oslo:
b) Valer Battery – near Rygge airbase:
c) Trogstad Battery – Havnas, southwest of Trogstad:
d) Nes Battery – near Gardmoen airbase:
15. 6 SAM Batteries: NOAH (Norwegian Adapted HAWK, deliveries underway)
a) Värnes: 9 NOAH launchers
b) Örland: 9 NOAH launchers
c) Bodö: 9 NOAH launchers
d) Evenes: 9 NOAH launchers
e) Andöya: 9 NOAH launchers
f) Bardufoss: 9 NOAH launchers
16. 22 Lt Air Defense Artillery Batteries
17. 9 Home Guard Lt Air Defense Artillery Batteries
Note: This source (Page 32, a Soviet report on a speech by a Norwegian Air Force chief) says there were three light AAA batteries at Bodo, Andoyo, and Bardufoss, plus four batteries each at Rygge, Lista, Värnes, Sola, Gardermoen, and Örland. Each battery reportedly had four firing platoons of 40mm or 20mm guns, backed by 12.7mm AA guns.

Note 1: Between 1980 and 1984, Norway took delivery of 60 F-16A and 12 F-16B. An additional 2 F-16B were acquired in 1989 as attrition replacements. 56 F-16As and 12 F-16Bs were in inventory in 1989. 20 NF-5s were still on active duty in 1989. An additional 10 NF-5As and 14 RF-5As were also held, either in storage or reserve. Helicopter inventory included 15-25 UH-1s, 13-18 Bell 412SP

Note 2: The Norwegian Air Force controlled approximately 36 Bofors 40L60 and 72 Bofors 40L70. The Home Guard had at least 72 L60, plus some number of 20mm RH202s

Note 3: It is possible that the 338th Skvadron had F-5s and the 336th had F-16s.

Note 4: Norwegian Air Force Commands
North Norway Command
331st Fighter (air defense duties, fully ready in peacetime), 334th Fighter/Bomber (ground attack), 33rd Patrol Skvadron, 330th Helo, 337th Helo, 339th Helo, 719th Transport
South Norway Command
332nd Fighter, 336th Fighter Bomber, 338th Fighter, 720th Helo, 335th Transport, Vaernes Flight School

TURKISH AIR FORCE

1. 1st Ana Hava Us (Wing) – Eskisehir, Turkey:

a. No. 111 Fighter/Bomber Filo (squadron): 18 F-4E
b. No. 112 Fighter/Bomber Filo: 18 F-4E
c. No. 113 Reconnaissance Filo: 8 RF-4C, RF-84F

2. 3rd Ana Hava Us – Konya, Turkey: (previously OCU, active in 1988)

a. No. 131 Fighter/Bomber Filo: 18 F-4E
b. No. 132 Fighter/Bomber Filo: 18 F-4E

3. 4th Ana Hava Us – Murted, Turkey:

a. No. 141 Fighter/Bomber Filo: Up to 16 F-16C (from F-104, 88-89)
b. No. 142 Fighter/Bomber Filo: Up to 16 F-16C (from F-104S, 88-90)

4. 5th Ana Hava Us – Diyarbakir, Turkey:

a. No. 151 Fighter/Bomber Filo: 24 F-5A
b. No. 152 Fighter/Bomber Filo: 24 F-5A
c. No. 153 Fighter/Bomber Filo: 12 RF-5A
d. No. 184 Reconnaissance Filo: 18 RF-5A

5. 6th Ana Hava Us – Bandirma, Turkey

a. No. 161 Fighter/Bomber Filo: Up to 16 F-16C (from F-104, 89)
b. No. 162 Fighter/Bomber Filo: Up to 16 F-16C (from F-104, 89-90)

6. 7th Ana Hava Us – Erhac, Turkey:

a. No. 171 Fighter/Bomber Filo: 18 F-4E
b. No. 172 Fighter/Bomber Filo: 18 F-4E
c. No. 173 Fighter/Bomber Filo: 18 F-4E

7. 8th Ana Hava Us – Diyarbakir, Turkey:

a . No. 181 Interceptor Filo: 15 F-104
b . No. 182 Interceptor Filo: 15 F-104S

8. 9th Ana Hava Us – Balikesir, Turkey:

c . No. 191 Interceptor Filo: 20 F-104G
d . No. 192 Interceptor Filo: 20 F-104G

9. 8 Air Defense Squadrons: 16 Nike-Hercules each

10. 2 Air Defense Squadrons: 12 Rapiers each

11. Training Units (partial listing)

a. 36 F-100C/F with Operation Conversion Units
b. 133 OCU Filo: F-5A/B
c. 193 OCU Filo – Balikesir, Turkey: F-104

Note 1: Aircraft Holdings: (from IISS and Jane’s, * entries are conflicting numbers from Flight International’s World’s Air Forces 1989)

F-5. Turkey took delivery of a total of 127 F-5A, 30 F-5B and 34 (38?) RF-5A in a variety of configurations over the years. In addition, the Netherland delivered 44 NF-5As and 16 NF-5Bs between 1989 and 1991. At least 106 were still in service in 1989, but probably quite a few more, including a number of the more advanced NF-5As received from the Netherlands (may have been from Canada?). (135+ F-5A/B*, 20 RF-5A*)

F-104. Turkey took delivery of about 400 total F-104s, including 40 F-104S interceptors from Italy. Throughout the 1980s, Turkey received numerous F-104s as they were withdrawn from service with other NATO members. While many were lost to attrition and other were cannibalized, it is likely several hundred remained by 1989. The units listed above with F-16Cs were in the process of converting from F-104 during this period, and would likely have been flying both aircraft. At least 175 F-104 and 25 TF-104Gs were still in service in 1989, plus likely large numbers in storage. (21 F-104S*, 150+ F-104G/CF-104*, 23+ TF-104G/CT-104C*, 26 RF-104G*)

F-4. By 1989, Turkey had taken delivery of a total of 142 F-4Es and at least 8 RF-4Cs. IISS lists 105 F-4Es in FGA squadrons and 30 in OCU squadrons. (126+ F-4E*)

Other Aircraft: 20 T-38A Talon, 75+ T-33A, 63+ T-37, 7 C-130E, 20 C-160, 40+ CN-235, 33 S-2A/B Tracker, 50+ UH-1H (SAR), 5 UH-19 (SAR)

Note 2: Ongoing Aircraft Deliveries

F-16. The Turkish Air Force was taking delivery of a large order of F-16s (partially built locally) from October 1987 on. As of December 31, 1989, 41 F-16C/Ds had been delivered.

Note 3: The Navy has 18 AB-212ASW and 3 AB-204AS in the ASW role

Two problems with the theory.

1. MiG-31’s were committed to intercepting cruise missiles not NATO strike aircraft.

2. MiG-29’s were front-line units, not backups.

I think on a tactical level, one needs to count how many F-16s the MiG-29 would encounter in the european front. Throughout the 80’s you need to think hard about how many F-16’s were in Europe.

No need for parity with US/NATO, strategic weapons come into play there.

Plus, Russia has a huge SAM network, no need for 1000+ fighters.

fair enough, but how many to achieve tactical goals? Probable attrition plays a role here as well. Would say a 400 fighter plane airforce suffice post 2020?

You have to remember that not only is the American pilot relying on his personal experience of the MiG-29 but he would also be very familar with the personal experiences of the German pilots who have been flying the MiG for over 10 years The Germans would have told him just how effective the IRST was or wasn’t. Do you think Lt. Col. Clifton is purposely contradicting what the Luftwaffe pilots told him?

No, I am just wondering how much personal bias goes into such an account.

On a personal level, I sometimes race cars. I have a 25 year old Japanese sports car that I always tweak and tune and I race it when time and money allows. I have even been to Nurburgring on one occasion. The things I can do with my car I can’t do with other newer cars. I know they are better, I know they should feel better to drive, I know they are better performers overall, but if I have to race, I’d rather do it in my own car. I am a better driver in that car, I perform better. Put me in a newer better car and I may not do so well in the race, in my car I may even come top 3.

do you catch my drift? That is a deeply personal thing, so maybe that account was a deeply personal thing.. all I am saying.

Me-163 is definitely a flying wing; https://travelforaircraft.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/lippischs-komet-the-messerschmitt-me-163/

Flying wing was patented in 1910 by Hugo Junkers.

Horten Ho-229 was also a flying wing without a rudder and more blended fuselage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPU8dxUhkus

me-163 had a fuselage and a distinguishable boom that a rudder was attached to, i.e. a tail. That is not a flying wing, it is a normal plane with some of the characteristics of a flying wing. The Horton was a true flying wing.

Well Me-163 Komet was a flying wing and some may say it was agile too. Not sure how stealth it was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_163_Komet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_B-2_Spirit

170 000 kg vs 4300 kg gives around 40 times smaller AC.

Me-163 was not a flying wing. The Ho-229 was a flying wing.