India blasts U.S. Arms aid to pak
– By Our Special Correspondent

New Delhi, Dec. 8: India has warned the US that its military aid to Pakistan will have a negative impact on the goodwill it enjoys in this country. Minister of external affairs K. Natwar Singh made this clear in Parliament, just hours before US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld landed in New Delhi on Wednesday evening on his first trip here after the UPA government came to power.

Angered over the $300-million military package for Pakistan as well as the further promise of F-16s, New Delhi has decided to indulge in some plain speaking with the US defence secretary. “We have cautioned the US against such a decision (supply of F-16s),” Mr Singh told the Lok Sabha. “We have also conveyed that US arms supply to Pakistan would have a negative impact on the goodwill the US enjoys in India, particularly as a sister democracy,” he added.

The government has also categorically ruled out the possibility of sending Indian personnel for the elections in Iraq. US pressure has been clearly averted by New Delhi with the minister stated categorically in response to a question in the House that “no Indian person is being sent to Iraq. They could send their people here for training.” This statement having the sanctity of Parliament effectively closes the door for any proposal for active Indian participation in Iraq’s elections next year that Mr Rumsfeld might bring with him.

India has not accepted the US claims that the military package to Pakistan is essentially to bolster its fight against terrorism. “Clearly, the components have little to do with terror,” sources here pointed out with the overview seeing in this an anti-India stance. These kind of measures encourage an arms race in the region, the sources pointed out maintaining that the US will have to take serious note of Indian concerns and address these adequately.

Indian naval officials said that with Pakistan acquiring the long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft PC3 Orion from the US, its surveillance capability will be enhanced in the Arabian sea. The Navy had also sought similar aircraft from the US.

The US defence secretary will meet Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, defence minister Pranab Mukherjee and external affairs minister Natwar Singh.

He is accompanied by senior Pentagon officials, including senior military assistant Jim Stauridis, special assistant Paul Butler, military assistant Lt. Col. Greg Lengyel, confidential assistant Delonnie Henry and India desk officer Jim Alverson. Mr Rumsfeld will also address a joint press conference with Mr Mukherjee.

Pay backs a bitch aint it!?

Because even if the US say no, if you dont ask….you dont get! 😉

No idea where to post this

South Asia – AFP

NEW DELHI (AFP) – US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is expected to discuss plans to sell F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan during a meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh this week, newspapers reported.

Rumsfeld is scheduled to arrive in the Indian capital late Wednesday and meet with Singh on Thursday morning.

Rumsfeld will discuss US-India relations with Singh, including arms sales, according to an official familiar with the visit.

Sales of new weapons that could upset the balance of power in the volatile South Asian region have rankled both countries with Pakistan concerned India could get Patriot missiles and India concerned about possible sales of fighter jets and naval surveillance aircraft to Pakistan, according to the Indian Express newspaper.

The Patriot, a ground-based missile system that can defend against ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and aircraft, is seen linked to India’s support of a proposed global missile shield, the newspaper said.

In response, Pakistan may have already asked to buy up to 25 F-16 fighter jets in 2005 when President Pervez Musharraf visited Washington last week and met President George W. Bush (news – web sites).

The two nuclear-armed countries, which have fought three wars in the past half-century, are in peace talks over the disputed Himalayan state of Kashmir (news – web sites) while developing new medium- and long-range missile systems at the same time.

If the Hawkeyes and Orions are the latest blocks, then I think with all this additional capability I dont think it would be beyond the realms of possibility for PAF to ask for something beyond F-16, namely a multirole fighter in service with Israel, Saudia and South Korea….. :dev2:

WASHINGTON, Dec 7: US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld begins a visit to India and Pakistan this week for talks on the sale of sophisticated missiles and other weapons to South Asia’s two nuclear neighbours.

He is scheduled to arrive in New Delhi on Dec 9 and may visit Islamabad either on Wednesday or Friday although the Pentagon is refusing to disclose the itinerary of his visit to Pakistan. Since he is attending President Hamid Karzai’s inauguration in Kabul on Tuesday, Mr Rumsfeld may visit Islamabad first before flying over to New Delhi.

The Bush administration appears determined to go ahead with the proposed arms sales to India and Pakistan despite criticism that it could further fuel a regional arms race and political instability at a time when delicate peace talks are being held between the two countries.

Although India has criticized the $1.2 billion arms package for Pakistan, it is equally keen to buy weapons from Washington. India has indicated that it plans to discuss with Mr Rumsfeld a possible purchase of the Patriot missile system. The Patriot is a ground-based missile system that can defend against ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and aircraft.

The visit comes as Pakistan is negotiating to buy F-16 fighters and other advanced military equipment from the US. The two nuclear-armed South Asian nations, which have fought three wars in the past five decades and are still struggling to resolve the Kashmir dispute, are already developing new offensive medium- and long-range missile systems.

India’s ambassador to the United States Ranendra Sen recently told journalists that he had discussed the prospect of buying Patriot missiles with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during a visit to New Delhi last month.

The sale could have political consequences across the border in Pakistan. It would give ammunition to the parties opposed to President Pervez Musharraf’s alliance with the United States.

Some opposition groups are already arguing that the United States is pro-India, and are urging Gen Musharraf to abandon slow-moving peace negotiations with New Delhi.

Gen Musharraf wants to resolve the 57-year-old Kashmir dispute through talks, but India has focused on improving trade ties, cross-border travel and other diplomatic confidence-building measures.

Diplomatic observers in Washington say that President Musharraf, who has recently expressed his own impatience with the peace talks, would have more difficulty defending them if a major US-India arms deal was perceived in his country as shifting the military balance further in India’s favour.

Pakistan’s likely response would be to ask for more sophisticated weapons, including F-16 fighter jets, to counter India’s defences, analysts said. Pakistan reportedly wants to buy between 19 and 25 aircraft, which cost around $25 million each, in the first half of next year.

http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/08/top8.htm

My opinion is US will offer Patriot to India, India will refuse due to integration issues with current Russian air defence system and russian pressure, US can then happily sell F-16s to Pakistan, telling India they made the offer of Patriots in the past……

Guys your being a bit touchy here, I think the possible induction of Patriot is quite relevent to an IAF thread. However, teh news below may also be of interest, seems that F-16s have never been on offer to India.
Also,I think it may be a case of Rumsfield TELLING India Pakistan will get F-16s rather then asking for Indias permission, if these guys can go to war against Iraq in the face of world opnion, selling a few fighters is not much of a challange for them

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_8-12-2004_pg7_1

By Khalid Hasan

WASHINGTON: The United States has made no final decision on the sale of F-16 aircraft to Pakistan and “the issue is still on the table”, a Pentagon source here is quoted as saying.

Noted South Asia expert Dennis Kux told India Abroad in a story published this week that it was unlikely the US would have offered F-16s to India when it was looking at making such a sale to Pakistan.

The unnamed Pentagon source said India has neither asked for nor been offered F-16s. He added that US Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld, who is visiting India and Pakistan this week, “will not be carrying any such offer either”.

The source asserted that the administration has made no formal offer to sell India the Patriot missile system either. However, in view of the growing defence ties between the two countries, manufacturers such as Raythorn and others would “naturally be looking toward the Indian market too”.

He also confirmed earlier reports that the offer of P-3C Orion maritime surveillance aircraft – that reportedly are also being sought by or being given to Pakistan – had been on the table for some years, but India has not yet availed itself of the offer.

During President Musharraf’s meeting with President Bush, the F-16 issue did come up but both sides have remained tight-lipped about it. There have been reports in India that the Indian prime minister’s office had told the Bush administration that it would have no objection if F-16s were sold to Pakistan because what was reportedly on offer were “old” F-16s, minus the latest avionics that could be fitted with shelves or platforms to carry nuclear warheads, or which could be reconfigured to carry such warheads. However, another report says Indian Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran, who was recently in Washington, told National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice that sale of F-16s to Pakistan would have an adverse impact on US-India relations.

KUROYEDOV: RUSSIA DOES NOT INTEND TO LEASE APL-971 SUB TO INDIA

http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=5156757&startrow=1&date=2004-12-01&do_alert=0

wrong, both E-2C and Eriye can track targets over land and sea

Israel, Egypt, Japan used E-2Cs in this role
Sweden uses Erieye over the sea

yes, there will be performance differences, but essentially they both fill the same roles

I think it would be INCREDIBLY wasteful for Pakistan to take two AEW types, additionally as per the report, the Northrop Director of Inetrnational programmes states that its run off between E-2C and Erieye, and he probably knows more about the multi-billion dolloar competition his company are involved in then we do…..

I congress pass this bill it will be just as important as Pakistan being declared a Major Non Nato Ally

SEC. 4082. UNITED STATES COMMITMENT TO THE FUTURE OF PAKISTAN.

(a) Sense of Congress- It is the sense of Congress that the United States should, over a long-term period, help to ensure a promising, stable, and secure future for Pakistan, and should in particular provide assistance to encourage and enable Pakistan–

(1) to continue and improve upon its commitment to combating extremists;

(2) to seek to resolve any outstanding difficulties with its neighbors and other countries in its region;

(3) to continue to make efforts to fully control its territory and borders;

(4) to progress towards becoming a more effective and participatory democracy;

(5) to participate more vigorously in the global marketplace and to continue to modernize its economy;

(6) to take all necessary steps to halt the spread of weapons of mass destruction;

(7) to continue to reform its education system; and

(8) to, in other ways, implement a general strategy of moderation.

(b) Strategy- Not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the President shall transmit to Congress a detailed proposed strategy for the future, long-term, engagement of the United States with Pakistan. The strategy required by this subsection may contain a classified annex.