Pak ThunderRemember, Pakistan said we would not use the helicopters for military purposes! 😀
“They said the Mi-171 helicopters were meant only for civilian use and a written commitment was received from the Pakistan Defence Ministry that the aircraft would not be used for military purposes.”
Pak ThunderYou mean your sources are off the deep end?
PAF Thunder,
Often use? Examples please.
Show us a situation where the Russians officially said (on the record) that they will not give System X to Country Y and then gave it.
Show us links, dates and names.
That is if you can 😉
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1914/19141160.htm
New Delhi wants total and blind support from Moscow on its dispute with Pakistan; at the same time it allows Washington to be the sole arbiter for the region. Russian officials are unhappy with the way certain sections in India reacted to the sale of Russian civilian helicopters to Pakistan. They said the Mi-171 helicopters were meant only for civilian use and a written commitment was received from the Pakistan Defence Ministry that the aircraft would not be used for military purposes. The same helicopters were first offered to India. But these days India prefers to trust Israeli as well as Western weaponry and military expertise
Pak ThunderI’d say that certain countries put a great value at their sovereignty, especially regarding foreign nations scanning every visitor into their homeland, foreign law-enforcement agencies operating freely, having access to nuclear facilities etc.
Some nations make money, use that cash and buy what they need. Others trade in their sovereignty for favors 😉
Could you please show me some solid evidence about foregners in Pakistans nuclear facilities? Or is that just a dream in order for you to pretend Pakistans nuke deterrence does not exist?
Pak ThunderPlease enlighten me, obviously your referring to Pakistanis, does anyone have any control over the racism here!?
Pak ThunderThat is the power of democracy. I can call their morals fake, which they totally are, and not be worried, unlike in some dictatorships that we need’nt talk of.
it is members of your community who not only take their pound of flesh from this country’s economy but also work actively to bomb and terrorise it. talk about a patronising attitude ! :rolleyes:
I am a terrorist? Oh, thanks for letting me know…. 😮
Pak ThunderSo pak will have to opt for probe refueling?
No idea….
Pak ThunderThis is the type of P-3C Lockheed want to sell the PN, that LOOKS like the most advanced P-3C I have ever seen, maybe someone can shed more light on what variant it is
Pak ThunderThey work better for countries like Japan, England, and Scandinavia which are surrounded by extensive water bodies. Such locations give enough time for a slow-moving aircraft to return to base. Else they stand the risk of being hunted down by long-range jets.
Refer to the flanker and orion incident near a scandinavian country. In ACIG.
Good point
Think PN P-3Cs will be operating far out to sea, but probably within range of IAF jets with air refueling, hopefully our Orions will be escorted
Pak ThunderAgosta 90B
Advantage? Perhaps you like to take it up in the navy thread of how the Agosta’s would fare against India’s Kilo fleet including INS Sindhushastra delivered in 2000. Debatable at best and rules out the holistic approach that lies in navy.
Orion 3PC
Yet to be delivered, nothing is known about delivery schedules and what block of harpoon to be carried etc..but the wishlists have begun. Besides they’re plenty of reports out there of the US pushing india to buy the same or 3+ orions. And of course ruling that out…its yet debatable how these future Orions would fare against IL-38 Sea Dragons which ARE being delivered this month.
Phalanx
Again Yet to be delivered, in what time schedules and still debatable how they’d fare against a Kashtan system.
Navy thread please.Lynx Helicopters
Against Naval Dhruvs and Ka-28’s and Seakings? you gotta be joking.
Agostas MESMA will give it greater submerged endurance, its sonars and its SUBTICS integrated command and control system and F17P Mod 2 torpedos are years ahead of anything in the Indian fleet
We have 2 P-3Cs in service and being refurbished, we have asked for 8 more, US has priced it up and sent Congress a notice, lets not pretend India is anywhere near that stage yet
Wrong again, Phalnax is already in service and another 6 are being ordered
We have Seakings too,
Lynx “In service”
Your Naval Dhruv wont be in the IN fleet for another few years will it!?
Pak Thundertiger, could you please provide a source or a link to your articles.
Its plainly obvious who keep’s shafting threads around here. star 49 has come in with his usual BS of ridiculous assumptions and of course has never bothered to verify any sort of data or read threads even on this forum where answers are abound to his questions. Indeed he indulges in his favorite one liners of FC1 is 35% as capable as F16. Arjun is 20.2% indigenous…and so on forth…
I can’t believe we’re still trying to prove the existence of what exactly the H2 and H4 are. Ah but they’re inducted! And these mythical weapons are to be the equaliser in any future battle with the IAF…uhhh but what do they actually do and any specs or a link to prove the same…..aaaahhhh NO but the PAF chief said it and ive got VERY DEEP sources to prove it…forget the small details about what it actually does….itll do something.
This seems to be the general trend of reporting among the pakistanis here, making pompus statements without giveing an inkling as to what they actually mean…or perhaps they’d like to expand in the navy thread.
In terms of modern weapons systems, PN outclasses IN in several areas, its just numbers that give IN a huge edge
Could you expand on this please perhaps in the navy thread? If ur referring to just 3 agostas’s…have you cared to look at the depth of the IN’s fleet and its family of Indian sonars…its induction schedule. But of course this seems to be the general trend of pakistani reporting. 310 T- 80 tanks a better army make. 3 Agosta’s a better navy made.
Of course factor in wishlist as to what and how many Orions to be delivered in what time schedule will have the latest block of Harpoon.Any discussion as to the ridiculousness of such statements immediately starts to put the pakistanis on the defensive with arguments to stop, claiming superiority/inferiority complexes and should the Indian navy or armed forces wished to attack they would have done so by now.
If India was able to swiftly attack Pakistan it would have done so several times
Reading about the past will show them, how much they’ve lost…and how much the borders have adjusted to our favor…but still perhaps they are right on this…for whatever reason my Elected government has still offered to pursue a policy of peace. It may not be my own personel choice or even the armed force but perhaps that trend in the future may change…and the people will finally reach a consensus about a policy to deal with pakistan. Until then my comrades, the forces will not ‘swiftly attack pakistan’ democracy and all that….
The Agosta 90B
The Orion P-3C
The Phalanax CWIS
Lynx Helicopters
These are the main areas of PNs adavntge over IN in terms of equipment
Only a very niave person would think PN is not getting the 8 P-3Cs
Pak ThunderAnother flipflop. Maybe we should expect more in the future, depending on who is asking the Russians.
In October, officials of the Chernyshev plant outside Moscow that builds the RD-93 (RD-33) said unequivocably that there is no problem with the engine being exported to a third country and that they are expecting orders in the 100s. I posted this in the China’s news, picts and spec thread.
This was reaffirmed again at Zhuhai when article describing Russia’s large presence at the air show included an official telling reporters that Russia is expecting to supply powerplants for the FC-1 which they expect to be a very large number.
But the key word might be Chernyshev is “expecting” a contract. The FC-1 has never been tied to the RD-93. Repeatedly, the FC-1 is described in Chinese articles as a open architecture where engine and even FCS could be re-configured.
If the China has not contracted the RD-93 except for the prototype machines then the Russians have little lose in soothing the Indians and saying they will not provide engines to a plane where they won’t get the contract anyways.
Russians could just be saying stuff to keep Indians quiet before Putins visit, then quietly crack on with supplying engine, they use the tactic often and it always seems to work….
Pak ThunderDid the IAF not say it will take them 2 years to decide!??
Pak ThunderNitin
There is a big difference. P-3Cs and Chinese Frigates are very much on the way, Indias Scorpene debate is still going on and is very far from being a done deal. In terms of modern weapons systems, PN outclasses IN in several areas, its just numbers that give IN a huge edge
Pak ThunderNitin
Right now the PN has a more modern aviation and submarine arm. 4 new Chinese frigates are on order. All PN ships have/will have CWIS. The same cannot be said of the IN.
Yes, PN is smaller, but with construction of MESMA Agosta, capability to make more and the induction of more Chinese frigates, if you think PN will stop modernising, the only person you are fooling is yourself….
Also expect the latest block of Harpoon when we get our 8 additional P-3Cs
Pak ThunderCorrect me if I am wrong, but one missile delivery a month will not even cover training requirments for this missile…..
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