Has anybody an idea about the date the picture below was taken?
1978-80?
And when you spend that sort of money, then you need a war. A war every 5 years. And that is exactly what has happened, and that is exactly why I am concerned.
so before Iraq and Afganistan what countries did the US go about invading?
Ahh ! That sublime emotion called revenge.
I understand Afghanistan but sorry I do not understand what that Iraq thing was all about. But probably cheese-eating surrender monkeys and friends are not supposed to understand all that. Tough logic !
Defend a country, raise an army, maintain an airforce by all means but when a country spends 250 Million$ on a single aircraft and spends 400 Billion $ on it’s defence budget. Then I know as does everyone that the intentions behind such need not be the most noble.
Its your logic thats faulty here, if we go by your logic, no country on earth should waste money on defence……
wheres your cut off point? When does spending become too much?
$100 on an AK-47 that could feed a kid for a month, $250 million taht could make a new hospital?
wonder what agreement they are exchanging after signatures !!
Who knows, there is a PAF, PN and PA officer present so could be a general “hey lets get along and help each other out in anyway we can” sort of thing, or an MOU on a specific system….
Now can’t jealous folks relieve themselves of their negative emotions once in a while already ! Do not get all presumptuous about it , will u ??
Just dont think you would be posting the same thing had it been “another” fighter prototype that had crashed.
Irrespective of your comments though, the F-22 will complete its development and go on to dominate everything in the sky…..
PN/USN Joint Ops training
Air Marshal Zahid Anis, Secy Defence Production and Gen. Jean Panie, Director Int’l Relation, Directorate of Director General Armaments, France exchaning MoU documents in Rawalpinidi. Courtesy: SADA
Air Marshal Zahid Anis, Secy Defence Production and Gen. Jean Panie, Director Int’l Relation, Directorate of Director General Armaments, France exchaning MoU documents in Rawalpinidi. Courtesy: SADA
so much for the Russians denying us engines!
Money talks….
ENGINE MANUFACTURERS ARE ON A BREAKTHROUGH
Large export contracts are expected
Àâòîð: Vladimir Karnozov
Source:Èñòî÷íèê: Voyenno-Promyshlenny Kurier, No. 47, December 8-14, 2004, p. 4
[Prospects of engines researched and manufactured in Russia on the international market: engine-makers hope to get large contracts in the framework of projects which are underway now, particularly with India and China.]
<> LARGE CONTRACTS FOR SUPPLY AND LICENSED ASSEMBLY OF RUSSIAN ENGINES DESIGNATED FOR INSTALLATION ONTO PROMISING INDIAN AND CHINESE AIRCRAFT ARE BEING PREPARED
Against the background of a lull with the export sales of new Russia-made planes, there have been prepared large contracts for supply and licensed assembly of Russian engines designated for installation onto promising Indian and Chinese aircraft. A new trend is outlining in the arms exports of the Russian military industrial complex – advanced growth of the engine-manufacturing companies from Russia and Ukraine.
In the immediate outlook, this applies to the engines for military aircraft. In remote outlook, a considerable improvement is expected in the sphere of power installations for passenger and cargo aircraft, as long as the funding transferred to accounts of engine-makers from sales of military hardware are invested into new civil projects.
Expected within several next months is signing of export contracts for AL-31FN and AL-55 engines from NPO Saturn, AI-222 engines from Ivchenko-Progress and RD-33/93 engines from Klimov company. These engines have been selected respectively for J-10 Xiao-Long fighter of China, Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) trainer jet of India, Hongdu L-15 supersonic trainer-combat plane of China and FC-1 Thunder multirole fighter of joint Pakistani-Chinese production.
The talks are about to finish on some items; on other projects the tender committees are drawing out their decisions. In a number of cases, the Russian engine-makers were competing on equal terms with worldwide grandmasters (Snecma, Rolls-Royce, Pratt&Whitney and General Electric) and gained victory.
Yuri Lastochkin, general director of NPO Saturn told us that Il-76 military transports equipped with D-30KP engines are being successfully used in China. The further purchases of these planes and engines are expected to follow. “We are concerned for everything related to the Chinese market of trainer jets,” Lastochkin continues. A parametric line of engines with the thrust power of 2 to 4 tons has been created on the basis of the AL-55 engine with the nominal thrust power of 1,760 kilograms for unmanned aircraft, trainer jets, trainer-combat planes and assault planes. “The AL-55 engine was created as a simple, reliable and foolproof engine, which would compensate for errors of pilots,” Lastochkin says. The production is being developed at UMPO and Saturn has been supplying a module.
The AL-55 engine has already been selected for AJT plane. “The tender, Larzac of France and AL-55 engine being its participants, finished in early 2004. Preparations for the contract have been finished; adjusted have been the schedules and all specifications. The contract will be signed by the end of the coming year,” Lastochkin says. The contract envisages experimental development, a delivery of a batch of engines and handing over the license. The capacity of the Indian market exceeds 500 engines, given the licensed production. The company gained the upper hand over its French rivals thanks to better performance properties of the AL-55 engine combined with low price and the nice “history” of Soviet and Russia-made engines in India. In 2004, India has purchased an extra batch of 6 Il-76 planes from the Tashkent Aircraft Plant. Saturn has gained a contract for 24 D-30KP engines (above $40 million).
New-generation engine Kaveri for the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) is another promising project with India. Marshal S. Krishmaswamy, commander-in-chief of the Indian Air Force said earlier this year that testing of pre-production samples created in India and improved in Russia are being successful and are close to completion. There’s an opportunity that some units for the Kaveri engine will be produced in Russia.
The further expansion of cooperation between the Indian and the Russian industry is being linked to the licensed production of RD-33 engine. Engines of Series-3 with the service life of 2,000 hours will replace engines of previous series (with the service life of 300 hours) at MiG-29 fighters of India. A servicing and maintenance enterprise is being founded.
The RD-93 version of this engine with a low-positioned accessory box is envisaged for FC-1 fighter of joint Pakistani-Chinese production. Most likely, the first batch of 100 units will be supplied from Russia. Overall, this project is estimated at 500 engines, given the potential licensed production in China. In the future, the FC-1 fighter may become the major fighter in the Air Force of Pakistan. The prospects of FC-1 fighter in the Air Force of the People’s Liberty Army of China (PLAC) are not yet clear. The PLAC may order a batch of these planes in the upgraded technical appearance (with a China-made airborne radar station instead of Italian-made radar in Pakistani fighters). Applied at these fighters might be a version of the RD-93 engine with a jet nozzle, which is being tested at a prototype of MiG-29OVT plane.
The LFC-16 project, which was for the first time displayed at Air Show China-2004 by the Guizhou (GAIG) Group of AVIC 2, is a single-seat multirole fighter with the takeoff weight of 9 tons. It may carry the combat load of 3,500 kilos and gain speed equivalent to 1.8 Mach number. The plane is being created on the basis of a FTC-2000 (JL-9) Plateau Eagle supersonic trainer fighter (continuation of the MiG-21 fighter), which is being tested now. The LFC-16 plane is assembled according to the tri-plane scheme. Weichai Power WP-13F engine has been the baseline engine, while RD-93 engine may become the alternative engine.
The AL-31FN engine also might have some prospects in China. The second batch is being prepared for the first batch of 54 units. Initial customer’s demand has been assessed at 100-150 engines, which are required for equipping the first batch of J-10 serial planes. If line production of this promising plane is launched, this will entail mass deliveries of hundreds of AL-31FN engines.
The selection of Yakovlev Development & Design Bureau and Ivchenko-Progress company as consultants and suppliers of the engines for the newest L-15 trainer-combat aircraft could be regarded as a serious achievement of the domestic military industries. First displayed at Air Show China-2004, this two-seat supersonic aircraft (the Mach number exceeds 1.4) is being developed by the Hongdu Group, which is part of AVIC I Corporation. Displayed at the show was a full-size model. Its propulsion unit consists of two AI-222-25F engines (index F indicates the version with an afterburner). In the version researched in 2002, the L-15 plane will take its first flight in late 2005. The plane is designed for training pilots of Su-27/Su-30MK and J-10 planes. It may take maneuvers at the attack angle up to 30 degrees. The initial rate has been 240 m/sec, which is higher than at most of the fighters.
The AI-222-25F engine might be used at two new versions of À-5 Fantan plane (an assault plane on the basis of MiG-19 fighter), in particular the JAQ-5J trainer-combat aircraft, the flight testing of which starts in early 2005.
Together with MMPP Salyut and Motor-Sich, the design bureau of Zaporozhye has been developing two engine versions: -25F and -25KFK (short afterburner). They are actually afterburner versions of the basic AI-222-25 engine, researched for Yak-130 trainer-combat aircraft. In full afterburner mode the -25F version reaches the power of 4,200 kilogram-force, while -25KFK version – 3,000 kilogram-force. In addition to Chinese planes, the new engines are designed for Yak-133 and Yak-135 planes (projects developed on the basis of Yak-130 plane).
The D-436 engine also has nice prospects. This engine is being installed onto Be-200 planes (the D-436TP version), Tu-334-100 planes (the D-436T1 version) and An-18 planes (the D-436-148 version). In the future, its versions (specifically the D-436-TKh) may get to the Indian-Russian Transport Aircraft (IRTA), a.k.a. Multirole Transport Aircraft (MTA) and Il-214, MS-21 passenger jet by Yakovlev Development & Design Bureau and Ilyushin Company, as well as upgraded versions of An-74 plane.
Thanks to Egyptian and Libyan orders, the An-74 plane is becoming the best-selling dual-purpose plane of Russia. If the Kharkov State Aircraft Enterprise (KhGAPP) continues manufacturing it after 2006, the plane will require upgrade for compliance with Chapter 4 of the ICAO by the noise parameters and accuracy of air navigation. Installation of extra absorbing panels to serial models equipped with the D-36 engines may become a decision as far as the propulsion unit is concerned. Transition to the more up-to-date D-436 engine is a drastic option. Pavel Naumenko, KhGAPP general director told us that this transition is possible and is advisable if the engine-makers enable to have the D-436 engine certified in Europe.
The intention of three companies involved in the D-436 project (Motor-Sich, UMPO and MMPP Salyut) to launch the certification procedure in Europe on terms of risk sharing was first declared at the Hydro Air Show-2004. The value of issue was stated at some $5-8 million. Gennadi Sofin, technical manager of Motor-Sich told us at Air Show China-2004, that directors of the above three companies (Vyacheslav Boguchayev, Viktor Lesunov, and Yuri Yeliseyev) had agreed on the financing of the certification procedure.
At the moment, contacts have been arranged with the European authorities; underway is the discussion of technical and legal aspects, including the work schedule. It is yet to be decided whether the D-436TP version will be certified together with the D-436-148 version. The engine makers are working within a tense schedule. In the TP project hey want to outscore Rolls-Royce, so that the European version of the Be-200 aircraft be first launched with a Russian-made propulsion unit; the certification deadline is pressing on the -148 version: it has been late 2005 for AP-25 and 2006-2007 for JAR-25 standards.
According to Sofin, heads of NPK Irkut are displaying their keen concern for base version of the be-200 plane equipped with the D-436TP version, which is developed to fully comply with the European airworthiness JAR-25 standards, as an alternative for Be-200RR version with BR.715 joint German-British engines.
It is required to manufacture some 100-200 planes so that the Be-200RR project could pay off, which is “hardly feasible.” Given the lower price of the Russian-Ukrainian propulsion unit, some 50-70 sales are sufficient to pay off the Be-200/D-436 project. The Emergencies Ministry of Russia has already placed an order for 7 planes, with an option for 8 planes more; China is expected to order 10 planes more. The flying sample of Be-200 plane was displayed in China in late October, while General Andun Li, who headed the Chinese military delegation at Air Show China-2004, scrutinized this plane at the show.
Grifo beat Israli and US radars to win upgrade competitions in singapore and Brazil for F-5 jet
Different variants are used in PAF Mirages and F-7s
ha ! how the high and mighty have fallen ??
WTF?
this article accuses a Senator of taking bribes to cajole the US Govt. not to sell equipment to Pakistan. what basis is the author using for this wild speculation ? and what’s so great in India safeguarding its interests in keeping Pakistan militarily weak. we’re enemies, and its obvious that our interest lies in keeping our enemy weak, given the enemy’s penchant for adventurism.
I agree. it would be strange if India did not act to try and prevent weapons sales to Pakistan, its doing what is purely in its self interests.
Lets keep the thread focused though, the jist of the article is that F-16s and/or French fighters may be in service very sooon
R.A.F Lyneham in wiltshire home of the hercules has shut down for 3 weeks due to lack of funds all personel have a 3 week holiday.
what does this ean will it mean the early closure of lyneham orjust regular closures?
er….this is some joke right!? What about all RAF C-130 flights to places like Iraq, Afghanistan and Bosnia!?
I’m yet to see evidence of that at all. There was a PAF Mirage-VPR with a bump but on a regular Mirage-III or Mirage-V? It would be most interesting to see how it accomodates both radar and FLIR LRUs.
But yerna, no one barring the resident nationalists, the PAF included, would go as far as to put both on the same level. I shudder to think what kind of posts we’d get if the PAF operated the same equipment as say, the RoCAF or HAF?
Sigh, what do you think the Litening has? NVG compatibility? Ofcourse. When almond talks about the new jags, he also means the ones that have been delivered. The upgraded single and two seaters flew in Sept and Nov 2003 respectively. Check the archives for pics. Here are the S/Ns of the first batch and the C/Ns of the second,
JT-066
JT-067
JT-068
JT-069
JT-070
JT-071
JT-072
JT-073JR-022
JR-021
JR-014
JR-025*
JR-023
JR-020
JR-024It also means that the each pilot is getting about half the flying hours acheived by every airframe, which already not quite a large figure. What use is an extra pilot if he doesn’t have the training to exploit?
Would be pretty presumptous to assume that anyone else other than yourself, thinks on the same line. No one is going to buy your great hopes until contracts are actually signed.
Inducted? Hardly any proof there, son. Especially from someone who does’nt even know his own country’s orbat and thinks it has Mi-35s that just popped up out of nowhere. Besides, the associated range from whatever report of the one single test flight (which could’nt make it out to be a bomb or a BVRAAM), was 120 km. From where did you pull the extra 40 km out of?
Hell, did you actually concur what was written on that bit you cut and paste from pakdef? It simply speculates on the Dart pod which was displayed at LeBourget, nothing more. But for the nationalist jingo, that’s more than enough to make it a part of PAF inventory and by extrapolation, better than the third Litening variant, does’nt it?
You actually put NVG and a ‘NVG compatible cockpit’ as two different factors? Sheesh. 😀
We’ve seen IAF Jags with Paveways! Show us pics of PAF Mirages with PGMs. Should we even mention the H-4?
The upgraded Jags have a better cockpit setup, better MMI, programmable avionics, more powerful central processing, LRMTS, better self-defence (with programmable threat libraries), not to mention IFR, RCS reduction (also note, with no actively emitting radar, it is difficult to detect) and dedicated USMS.
For a ground attack a/c, low level penetration, which is the Jaguar’s domain, is better. The Mirage’s FBW-less delta setup is not exactly a dream at lo-lo. At the same time, the Jag is’nt quite fantastic at high altitude.
An honest piece of advise now would be for you to flutter off to your ’10 P-3Cs, 100 TPS-77s, 200 Rafales..’ thread that everyone loves and continue your snake oil salesmanship there.
Ah, Harry, Harry, Harry
Well, thanks for your kind words on my “snake oil salemanship” and “nationalistsic jingo”, is it any wonder alot of users are appalled at the bias in your moderation…..?
Anyway, I qouted sources and congressional notifications for the P-3s and TPS-77s, now I can provide the link to the Defence Security Coperation Agency that inform congress of these sales, if you call that “snake oil salesmanship” , then that reflects more on your knowledge then on the news item I am afraid……
You make a good pint on the Jags, so about 20% of the IAF jag fleet are NVG compatible as opposed to every PAF Mirage ROSE?
With regards to the H-4, they are actual reports on Janes Defence Weekly
again, you may think its a hallucination, or what was the term? Ah,”snake oil”, but here you go….and your right my error, it was 120km and not 160km
JANE’S DEFENCE WEEKLY – JANUARY 07, 2004
——————————————————————————–
Pakistan conducts second test firing of H-4 missile
ROBERT HEWSON Editor, Jane’s Air-Launched Weapons
London
Pakistan is believed to have successfully completed a second test firing of its clandestine H-4 missile system, according to December regional media reports.
Reports of a first test emerged in April 2003, stating that the missile was fired from a Mirage III fighter aircraft and successfully destroyed a target drone.
In the April reports, the H-4 was described as an active-radar air-to-air missile (AAM) and most observers saw it as no coincidence that reports of Pakistan’s programme emerged immediately following the first test of India’s Astra AAM.
The latest reports describe the H-4 as an air-to-surface weapon and refer to two variants, H-4 and H-2, with a stand-off range of 120km and 60km respectively.
While it is not possible to confirm all details of the H-4 programme, Pakistan is long thought to have fielded a standoff precision-guided weapon system akin to the Raptor series of powered glide bombs developed in South Africa. Sources in Pakistan also suggest a South African connection to other Pakistan Air Force weapon programmes.
The Raptor family was developed by Denel (Kentron) under the codenames H-1, H-2 and H-3 from the late 1970s onwards. It is known that Denel has undertaken integration studies for the Raptor with the F-16 and Mirage aircraft. Pakistan’s F-16s have a primary air defence tasking, while its upgraded Mirage IIIs are allocated a precision-guided munition delivery role.
Pakistan Air Force Chief of Staff ACM Kaleem Saadat said in October 2003 that a beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) capability was a near-term priority for the air force (JDW 8 October 2003). He said discussions were under way with China for the development of the SD-10 BVRAAM
You wanted a pic of a PAF Mirage with Paveway and , well Harry, I just hate dissapointing you……there actually is one floating around with a Paveway dlung underneath, will do my best to provide this
The ROSE uopgrade has made PAF Mirages the equal in terms of electronics and cockpit to the IAF Jag, I suggest you find out more about Mirage cockpit before making such statements
You can have a closer look at some ROSE Cockpit pics here
http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showthread.php?t=6265
As opposed to your orders for me to “flutter off”, well Harry, I would say I expected better of you as a moderator, but then , that would simply not be the truth
No ones in denial old boy, you can post a model showing SU-30s with Bramhos which will enter service in a few years, a formidable system.
PAF have been test firing H4 for 2 years and inducted it into service, it has a 160km range
IAF is indeed a powerful force, but never underestimate your enemy, and for the record, to counter yout orginal point, PAF Rose aircraft are just as well equipped, if not better equipped then IAF Jags, we have prved this on the last 3 pages of the thread